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    Username Post: Diamond and ceramic VS waterstones?        (Topic#922284)
    EDDAKA
    Member
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    04-27-12 09:28.47 - Post#2465767    



    Hey guys,

    I've been a long time believer in simple sharpening tools. Jigs, and other assisted sharpening systems are not for me.

    I do like the king stones 1000 & 6000 grit. They seem to do a good job for me. I can get usually get most knives shaving sharp. Some modern stainless steels seem to take forever with the king stones. I also don't like having to be near a water source (like my sink...)or the fact they get uneven (despite my best efforts)

    I've recently learned that DMT makes a pretty nice diamond stone, and I know spyderco makes good ceramic stones.

    So my question is this:

    Can I replace my waterstones with 2 or so DMT stones?
    It seems the fine stone is "600 grit" and the very fine is "1200" grit. Can I go straight to ceramic after these two stones? They seem like pretty low grit compared to my king stones.


    I would appreciate some info.

    -Richard.
     


    pcm81
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-27-12 09:52.33 - Post#2465773    


        In response to EDDAKA

    Good thing about DMTs is that they are easy to use and work on hard steels. Bad thing about DMTs is that they cut deep hence a 1200DMT is probably simmilar to 800 water stone. Personally i do not like the feel of DMTs, so i only use them to set initial bevel or to flatten my water stones.

    You can get a shaving sharp edge off dmt at 220 grit, but that is because the edge is very jagged... it will dull after the 1st cut... I'd say DMTs work well up to 1200 DMT grit but i'd still go with water stone for the finisher.

    Not sure what you mean by ceramic... just a ceramic rod that has no abrsive in it? If so, then no, dont go to ceramic from 1200 dmt. Or if you do go, don't expect the edge to last as long as properly polished edge. If it was up to me i'd follow a 1200dmt with a 3k water stone and follow that with a 5-6k stone. If you do not like water, a hard tranclucent arkansas stone would be a good stone to follow the 1200 dmt, or just grab a 4k shapton glass stone.

    Edited by pcm81 on 04-27-12 09:55.12. Reason for edit: No reason given.
     
    Lagrangian
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-27-12 16:58.26 - Post#2465873    


        In response to pcm81

    • pcm81 Said:
    Not sure what you mean by ceramic... just a ceramic rod that has no abrsive in it?



    I think "ceramic" means the abrasive aluminum oxide (corundum/sapphire grit). Not sure, but I think this is what "ceramic" usually means for knife sharpening. (Although I suppose stuff like silicon-carbide is technically a ceramic as well?)
     
    Michiel Vanhoudt
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-27-12 18:22.40 - Post#2465896    


        In response to Lagrangian

    The ceramic stones from Spyderco aren't flat. Never even saw one that was flat.

    I like DMT plates, but I would stay away from the Spyderco stones. They are extremely hard to flatten.
    Michiel


    MIKE #506

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    ytreich
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-29-12 07:05.35 - Post#2466309    


        In response to Michiel Vanhoudt

    Your question is two pronged. #1, I would not trade my water stones for DMTs. You are right, the waterstones are much finer.

    In fact, they are way finer than any ceramics that I have heard of, which leads to your second question.

    If you wanted to get DMTs, a 600, 1200, 2k ceramic rod progression would be great, and lend itself to fast touch-ups.

    You mention Spyderco's stones. I would not use Spyderco stuff much. They are geared toward amateurs, IMHO.

    What are you wanting to do?
    Trust me, for I like big butts and I cannot lie.


     
    Lagrangian
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-29-12 08:57.01 - Post#2466352    


        In response to Michiel Vanhoudt

    • Michiel Vanhoudt Said:
    The ceramic stones from Spyderco aren't flat.
    [...]
    ...I would stay away from the Spyderco stones. They are extremely hard to flatten.



    Thanks for sharing your experience. What happened when you tried to flatten them? Were they simply too hard (ie: Rockwell Hardness) to flatten?

     
    locutus
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-29-12 15:11.40 - Post#2466478    


        In response to Lagrangian

    Water stones are my first love.

    Don't particularly like ceramics except Crock Sticks for very minor touch up.

    When they aren't enough, ATOMA diamond plates are my next choice.

    When I find something that I can't sharpen with ATOMAs, I'll sell my knives and stones and take up needle point.
    DARK LORD OF THE SWARF


     
    Michiel Vanhoudt
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-29-12 17:42.46 - Post#2466493    


        In response to Lagrangian

    • Lagrangian Said:
    • Michiel Vanhoudt Said:
    The ceramic stones from Spyderco aren't flat.
    [...]
    ...I would stay away from the Spyderco stones. They are extremely hard to flatten.



    Thanks for sharing your experience. What happened when you tried to flatten them? Were they simply too hard (ie: Rockwell Hardness) to flatten?






    They got flat, but it took ages. Then you have to finish them on a grit that's fine enough not to leave scratches so the stone doesn't have deep scratches that'll ruin the finish.

    They use Aluminum oxide in their stones, the same as most stone makers, but it's the binder that's so hard and unforgiving.
    Michiel


    MIKE #506

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    jendeindustries
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-29-12 18:18.29 - Post#2466497    


        In response to Michiel Vanhoudt

    +1 It's the binder that's a killer on the Spyderco stones.
    Tom Blodgett

    Edge Pro stones
    KME Stones
    WEPS Stones

    My Blog!


     
    Lagrangian
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-30-12 00:14.51 - Post#2466524    


        In response to Michiel Vanhoudt

    Hi Michiel! Thanks for explaining all that.
     


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