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    Username Post: VG-10 Vs S30V/ JAPAN Vs USA        (Topic#895538)
    Dan61082
    Member
    *
    02-25-11 09:26.52 - Post#2300677    



    I know this has probably been discussed before, but..............I'd just like some fresh opinions.

    I've owned plenty of blades in both and there's just one thing; I seriously like VG-10 way more. People praise S30V constantly in these forums and I could never understand exactly why. Now that I've finally made the decision to join a forum, I want to discuss it. I personally feel as though S3OV chips all too easily and is such a huge pain in the A_ _ to sharpen. Am I the only one? So if I am not the only one, I'd like to here about it or even some conflicting reports.

    When I was a kid growing into a knife nut, my father and the others around me despised Japanese knives and praised American. Nowadays, after drastic changes in Japanese quality control, I find myself gravitating towards Japanese blades and not so much American (I'm talking production BTW). Yes, I know that as an American I should only buy American, but I've honestly found that on Average these days Japanese brands outperform and possess greater overall quality and attention to detail than rivaling American brands. If I drop 100+ Dollars on a knife, I do not appreciate a product with defects and/or poor attention to detail. Some of our domestic brands (SOME NOT ALL) really need to step it to compete. I'm trying really hard to not name names here, but I'm talking higher end production (primarily folder) brands here- not a couple only, but SEVERAL. Opinions?
     
    marcinek
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    02-25-11 10:33.35 - Post#2300723    


        In response to Dan61082

    If you going to claim that "Some of our domestic brands (SOME NOT ALL) really need to step it to compete"....then step up and name names.

    You have a claim...make it, please. Thank you.
    "Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius




     
    MikeStewart
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    02-25-11 10:39.33 - Post#2300731    


        In response to Dan61082

    Who are these people that love S30V ?

    You must be thinking of some other forum.

    NOW.....Compare VG-10 with CPM154 or CPMS35VN or Carpenter XHP.

    All of them are actually less prone to chipping than VG-10 (not that VG-10 Chips easily) because they are all actual super steels that are finer grained than VG-10.

    VG-10 is great but it is a large Carbide Stainless and NOT a super Steel.

    Now back to S30V.

    S30V if sharpened with a refined edge will not easily Chip and it will hold an edge longer than VG-10.

    if S30V is just sharpened without refinement - it is not very good at all.



    Mike...............
    BRKCA MIKE #01
    NJKCA #041

    "I Am America"

    Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

    RIP Chris + 1


     
    marcinek
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    02-25-11 11:01.33 - Post#2300755    


        In response to MikeStewart

    I'd still like to know who these companies are.

    Throwing out a statement like that is kinda poor form. Almost....almost...dare I say...trolling.

    Say what you mean, and be prepared to defend your point.

    It's what we do. It's what intelligent discussion for the knife enthusiast is.
    "Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius




     
    BurkeCutlery
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    02-25-11 15:21.46 - Post#2300968    


        In response to marcinek

    As far as Japanese makers doing better QC, there are several comments from makers here in the US that have attested to the traditional, and sometimes *sloppy* heat treating that goes on in Japan. Perhaps this is only with Kitchen knives, I don't know nearly as many Japanese branded pocket knives as American ones.

    And I'll have to agree that VG-10 and s30v is apples and oranges.

    S30V, in my estimation, is a bit of an oddball. I was attracted to it, mostly by Crucible's hawking of it, but I too have found that its minute edge holding ability is lost to 154CM's ease of sharpening and ability to withstand abuse. Yes, abuse. I hit an s30v blade on a sink and it chipped. Accidental? Definitely. Permanent? No. But sharpening it down was a *massive* PITA.

    I now carry a BM 551 in 154cm, and I really like it. The edge is tough and easy to sharpen. Superior? Maybe, maybe not. But the thing is, I don't MISS s30v.
    Eamon Burke

    Burke Cutlery Services

    Finish Sharpening on CKTG


     
    Dan61082
    Member
    *
    02-25-11 22:19.23 - Post#2301151    


        In response to BurkeCutlery

    Sorry if it's "poor form" and "trolling," but I'm still not going to start listing name brand names because, frankly, that's just not right in my opinion. I will say though, Mike, that Bark River is definitely not one of the brands that I am talking about. I am only talking about VG-10 and S30V here, not any of the other comaparable steels. Why? Because these are the steels that the FOLDERS I usually prefer to purchase are made from. I have absolutely no experience with CPM 154 yet though and would really like to try it out as 154CM is a wonderful all-around steel. I'm not trying to rip on any steel by any means. S30V and the American Brands that I am talking about are far from crap. I just feel that some of the American made production folders that I have purchased (perhaps mine are just lemons) lack the impecable attention to detail and quality that Japanese folders of a similar price range possess. All that I was asking was for was opinions, as in does anyone else feel this way or do they feel different and, if so, why- not inquisitions regarding my credibility to make such a claim and accusations of trolling and bad form. I will always defend my personal opinions and claims based upon my perceptions and experience, but without going to far onto the offensive. I will tell you one of the brands that I am talking about on the positive side: how about MOKI made Al MARS and SPYDERCOs or MOKIs themselves and just about all SEKI made blades in VG-10 in general. Take one of the aforementioned folders and lay it aside let's say one of the brands that (without saying names here) has a goverment contract and issues auto and manual folders to deploying troops or one of the aforementioned brands who also produces domestically in the American version and compare the two sides. You will likley notice a slight difference in what I have already mentioned numerous times. That is not to say that the difference is exactly drastic, but to someone who looks close enough there is a definite difference.
     
    Dan61082
    Member
    *
    02-25-11 22:44.22 - Post#2301156    


        In response to Dan61082

    Also, yes it was a different forum where S30V is praised among members as some kind of God constantly. Oh, and hello I'm new to the forum as of yesterday. Nice to meet you all and I apologize if I have started out in a bad way by posting a thread making such "wild" claims. I've been reading from your forum for a while as I would search whatever I could regarding a knife via internet before a purchase and the forums always come up with the most results. I just wanted to initiate a discussion regarding a subject that has intrigued me as of lately, not start a war.

     
    Dan61082
    Member
    *
    02-25-11 22:57.15 - Post#2301161    


        In response to MikeStewart

    And Mike, FYI, I carry a Gunny whenever I go into the woods and have nothing but good to say about quality of your knives. I use the heck out of it, strop it a little after use and it keeps on going razor sharp. Mine is A-2 and A-2 makes a great FB.
     
    marcinek
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    02-26-11 03:19.47 - Post#2301248    


        In response to Dan61082

    All I'm saying is that if you are going to make claims about coompanies having poor quality, then say which companies you are talking about or don't make the claim at all.

    We don't deal in "he said, she said" about unidentified companies. It's not fair.

    And saying "A lot of American companies don't make quility product, but Bark River does" is nice for Bark River, but leaves EVERY other American maker with fans and/or representatives here wondering if they are who you are talking about.

    Making the claim that you did without letting those representatives and or fans defend the brand might fly somewhere else....but here....not really.

    I'm not attempting to "start a war", I'm just trying to clear up a misunderstanding that you, as a new member, might have.

    So....who are you talking about?
    "Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius




     
    efros10
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    02-26-11 05:43.07 - Post#2301329    


        In response to marcinek

    I will say that I find the edge holding capability of S30V as conspicuously better than VG-10 or 154cm. Once a nice polished edge is completed S30V is not that difficult to maintain.

    I find VG-10 and 154cm hard to distinguish in terms of performance. They are two of my favorites. I do prefer S30V over these steels though, at least on a folder. The laminated VG-10 in Fallkeniven's fixed blades hard to beat.
     
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