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    Username Post: Mora Carbon vs Triflex        (Topic#876952)
    JohnG10
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
    *
    04-19-10 13:42.23 - Post#2113841    



    I have a Model 120 laminated steel Mora that I used to split some wet 1.5" wide cedar branches to get dry 1/4" wide kindling. I sometimes had to tap the blade with another stick to get it started, but was able to "cut" the stick along the grain with a "medium-hard" amount of force and a 2-handed grip on the handle. Once or twice I had to tap the tip with the baton when it got stuck near a knotty area.

    It turns out that the blade followed the grain pattern a little too well and is now bent in an egg-shaped pattern along it's length.

    I want to get a 2.5-3" blade with a full size handle that will perform this task without becoming bent or shattering. Is the Carbon steel Mora or the Triflex better in this regard ?

    Will the spine of the Carbon blade stay square-edged noticeably longer than the spine of the Triflex blade when used with a fire steel ?

    Also, which handle feels about as hand-filling as the #2 Mora - the clipper or craftsman ? (I'm looking for handfilling handle that is not so blocky that the tip can't be easily manipulated for detail work).

    Does Mora make a 2.5-3" blade Clipper / Craftsline or Craftsman ? (This is the longest blade I can have on Cubscout campouts).

    Finally, is there a good way to restraighten the 120's blade ? Is counterbending necessary, or will that cause stress fractures ? I imagine a Scandi blade has to be very straight for the grind to serve as the sharpening guide reliably if I want to use my 2" wide stones for sharpening rather than a rod to follow the curve...

    Thanks.
     


    Rich S
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-19-10 23:24.28 - Post#2114006    


        In response to JohnG10

    I don't know that any of the Mora blades will stand up to heavy batoning. The carbon is no different in that regard than the laminated. The Triflex does seem to be a bit stronger. I would suggest a thicker blade like a Lauri. As for straightening your blade. Might try putting it between two flat wood slabs in a vise and tightening it down really hard. I wouldn't recommend trying to vise it and bend the blade by hand - good way to break the blade and/or slice your hand really badly.

    Rich S
     
    beammeupscotty
    Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-20-10 01:40.10 - Post#2114074    


        In response to Rich S

    John, batoning is not a practice I recommend for a knife that you like, but your problem with the laminated blade can probably be fixed. First, the reason it bent is precisely because it is laminated. The softer steel on the outside of the blade does not spring back as well as something with a harder temper. The other side of the coin is that the blade is less likely to snap under stress because of that softer steel. I suspect that an all carbon Mora, or a stainless one would hold up better to the kind of use you put your laminated knife through.

    As far as removing the bend in your laminated blade, I doubt that putting it in a vise is going to help much. What you need to do is put some gentle stress on it in the direction opposite the current bend. If I were doing it I would use a heavy, hard plastic mallet and a large block of wood, ideally a tree stump or piece of log. Use the end grain, not the side grain.

    First I would take a normal steel hammer and I would pound the end grain of the log until I had formed a slight depression in the grain about 1 1/2" in diameter, maybe 1/8" or less in depth. You will probably need to do this near the edge of the log so you can reach it with the blade without involving the handle in the process. Then I would lay my knife across this small depression with the high side of the bend facing up, and begin gently tapping the high spot with the plastic mallet. Stop frequently to look down the length of the blade to see how you are doing. If the blade is not straightening out, you will need to hit a bit harder as you go until it straightens out. Make sure you keep it over the depression. If you work slowly and carefully, this should take out the bend without damaging the blade in any way. If you cannot get the metal to move, you might have to tape up the blade to protect it, and do it with a steel hammer instead of the plastic mallet. If all else fails, you might have to put it in a vice and give it a yank, but this is the most difficult to control.

    After reviewing what Ragweed has to offer it seems that there are not any Moras with plastic handles that will meet your blade length requirement. It seems that in addition to your length limitations, you should also be looking for something with a finger guard. I find three carbon steel blades that might work for you:

    #1241-G; is a shorter carving knife with the wider sloyd style blade. The high carbon steel blade is 2 3/4" long, 11/16" wide and .098" thick. The clipped upper edge provides a fine point for detail work. The 4" handle is large enough for those with average or slightly larger hands. There is a single finger guard to protect beginning carvers, or for those who prefer one. $10.

    #73-164PS; This one is listed as a "Woodcarving knife for Children". It comes with a carbon steel blade just under 3" long, 5/8" wide, and .080" thick. There is a stamped metal guard to keep the child's fingers off the blade, and the 3 1/2" wood handle is sized for smaller hands. The knife comes with a plasitc sheath for $14.

    or the same knife with a leather sheath:

    #73-164; This one is listed as a "Woodcarving knife for Children". It comes with a carbon steel blade not quite 3" long, 5/8" wide, and .080" thick. There is a stamped metal guard to keep the child's fingers off the blade, and the 3 1/2" wood handle is sized for smaller hands. The knife comes with a leather sheath with a belt loop and snap fastener for the knife. $26.50.
     
    JohnG10
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
    *
    04-20-10 14:31.43 - Post#2114473    


        In response to beammeupscotty

    Thanks for the info so far.

    The knife if for me, so no guard is needed. The 3" blade length limit is just the policy for the local scout group.

    Also, I don't need something that will handle heavy batoning. I usually just split the sticks with a 2 handed grip on the handle. I occaisionally do light batoning (2-5 wrist powered impacts with a 1.5" thick x 12-15" long baton) - but only when the blade gets stuck.

    I'm sure the blade was bent when I split the sticks lengthwise using a 2 handed grip to force the knife down the stick without a baton. I only used the baton twice - for about 1/2" of total distance over 8 lengthwise splits. I've done this same lengthwise splitting at least 30 times (10 sticks with 3 splits each) with my Victorinox Spartan, and have never had issues with the blade or the pivot. Will the all carbon or triflex blade be better for light "batoning" ? Is the back of the triflex hard enough to use with a firesteel without resquaring the spine a lot ?

    Finally, I like the thicker but tapered wooden handle on the #120 and #2, but was thinking a tiny bit thicker handle might be nice, and the sheath on the Clipper or new Craftline series looked useful enough that I might be willing to give up the traditional wooden handle.

    Any advise ?
     
    beammeupscotty
    Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-20-10 16:19.18 - Post#2114547    


        In response to JohnG10

    My advice is to do what I do, buy bare blades and make your own handles and sheaths. It's not all that hard to do and lots of fun. I am far from great at it, but I still enjoy the process. You should give it a try.
     
    SporK60
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-20-10 16:57.04 - Post#2114562    


        In response to beammeupscotty



    I'd give the same advice...I don't think you'll find a Mora like you describe.

    If I were going to do it I would probably start with a #2 for a few dollars more...to get the ferrule and sheath. I would shorten the blade to three inches from the tang end to avoid having to regrind the bevel and reshape the tip. Then mount it in a nice piece of wood. Then I'd cut the plastic sheath down as a liner for a new leather sheath. That would make for a stout wide-bladed custom Mora.

    Alternatively, you could start with a 3" Puukko blade and a ferrule

    Karesuando makes a nice 3" blade as well - Link

    The Triflex spines are too soft to make a good firesteel scraper...only about 1/4" of the blade nearest the tip is hard enough to work. The same goes for any Lauri PT (progressive temper) and most laminated blades.

       Attachment

    Dave


     
    beammeupscotty
    Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-21-10 02:35.35 - Post#2114715    


        In response to SporK60

    For the 11 bucks it costs, that Lauri 3" carbon blade is a great deal and will make up a much more acceptable woods knife than the 120 you have been using. The 120 is a whittling knife, not a bushcraft knife.

    In fact, I think I just ordered one of those last Friday myself. I have a Lauri PT that I am so impressed with that I ordered 3 more Lauri blades to try out, one a big old Leukuu.

    Buying a complete knife and making a new handle, as Spork has suggested is a great idea if you would want to make a traditional backsewn sheath for the knife, which you need a liner for. I often just make a conventional welted sheath to avoid the need for a liner.

     
    SporK60
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-21-10 03:01.34 - Post#2114730    


        In response to beammeupscotty

    There's also a couple of full-tang Frost Lapplander blades to consider - Link
    Dave


     
    JohnG10
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
    *
    04-22-10 08:47.54 - Post#2115544    


        In response to SporK60

    The Lauri & Polar blades look nice. I tend to like thinner blades for their better cutting performance though.

    Are the Mora #1 or #2/0 carbon blades or the Marttiini 571 sturdy enough to not become bent by light batoning ? The Mora 2/0 size at Ragnar's is about the right size, but I'd probably rehandle it with a larger handle.

    So here's some questions about "building my own":

    Are the hardnesses & grinds of the Enzo, Lauri & Polar blades about the same (they are all listed as 59 Rc at Bens).

    Is there any advantage to the flat ricasso on the polar blades instead of the fully ground lauri blades ?

    Is there any advantage to a ferrule instead of a bolster ?

    How does the pommel rivet work ?

    Thanks.
     
    beammeupscotty
    Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-22-10 11:36.09 - Post#2115679    


        In response to JohnG10

    The 2/0 might hold up to light batoning, but I would not really recommend it with a knife that small. You might want to consider a blade shaped like the Lauri 108H carbon. I just got one of these yesterday and I would say there is plenty of meat at the base of the blade for some light batoning, while the tip narrows down enough to do some fine work if necessary. The more I look at it, the more I think it might be the best bet for you. Length is listed as 80mm making it about 3.15" long .... right about your max length requirement. It is quite a bit thicker at the base than either a Mora #1/0 or #2/0. A 1/0 carbon is about .096" thick while the 108H is a full .125" thick at the base.

    I can't see where it would make much difference whether you used a ferrule or bolster. Many people use neither.

    The blades with the ricasso are said to be easier to fit a bolster to, but my experience is that it is not that hard to do the blades without the ricasso.

    The grinds on all Scandi style blades that I have seen are all about the same, though they may differ by a degree or so and some maintain the same bevel width all the way to the tip, while others do not. 59 Rockwell (RC) is 59 Rockwell. Blades may vary as to the composition of the steel they are made of and may therefore have better or worse edge retention characteristics, but as far as hardness goes 59 is 59.

    The pommel rivet is a method of securing the handle to the blade that is very positive, as the "rivet" is actually the end of the blade peined over a metal plate. This makes it virtually impossible for the handle to come off the blade but practically speaking, with modern adhesives the likelihood of a handle coming off a blade is very small, assuming the handle was properly fitted in the first place. Many people dispense with the rivet and just have a fully hidden tang. That works fine.
     
    SporK60
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-22-10 12:59.38 - Post#2115721    


        In response to beammeupscotty



    Ack!...a 2/0 is puny!

       Attachment

    Dave


     
    SporK60
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-22-10 13:26.10 - Post#2115740    


        In response to SporK60





    Lauri 103H vs puny Mora 2/0

       Attachment

    Dave


     
    SporK60
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    04-22-10 14:36.27 - Post#2115788    


        In response to SporK60

    I believe the Ahti "Korpi" uses the same Lauri blade - Link
    Dave


     


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