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    Username Post: 440C vs. CPM-S30V        (Topic#773677)
    Rohann
    Member
    *
    07-27-06 11:17.37 - Post#994765    



    Hey all, looking at getting a decent folding knife soon (for under $100), and I've found the Kershaw Avalanche (S30V) and the Benchmade Griptilian (440C). I'm not sure which to choose; what are your thoughts on S30V vs. 440C? According to "http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/blade_materials.html#440C", the S30V looks a bit better than the 440C, but I like the design of the Griptilian better.

    Thanks,
    -Rohann
     


    steveH
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    07-27-06 12:58.04 - Post#994861    


        In response to Rohann

    I have knives with both steels, and they both look the same to me...don't know what that means.

    I have a Grip...those are sweet knives with the venerable Axis lock. I have no knowledge of the Avalanche, so I can't say either way. I'm sure you'd be very happy with either one that appeals the most to you. I can say that S30V is a booger to sharpen, relative to 440C...
    ************************* *


     
    Rohann
    Member
    *
    07-28-06 02:45.03 - Post#995250    


        In response to steveH

    How about 154cm compared to S30V?

    -Rohann
     
    frankk
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    07-28-06 12:52.23 - Post#995664    


        In response to Rohann

    440C may not be the latest wondersteel but is as good as ever, combining a very good balance of edge holding and stain resistance. S30V has better edge holding but is not as rust resistant and is a lot harder to polish. 154CM takes a good finish easily, as does 440C, and pretty much splits the difference in edge holding between 440C and S30V. I would recommend getting the kind of knife you like without getting too hung up on the steel.




    - Frank

     
    Rohann
    Member
    *
    07-29-06 07:16.47 - Post#996225    


        In response to frankk

    Thanks for the reply.
    Well I decided on the Griptilian (I like it better) because the guy at Knifecenter found me one in 154cm, and S30V is supposed to be a real pain to sharpen.

    -Rohann
     
    jetsteel
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
    *
    08-06-06 09:16.16 - Post#1003474    


        In response to frankk

    • frankk Said:
    440C may not be the latest wondersteel but is as good as ever, combining a very good balance of edge holding and stain resistance. S30V has better edge holding but is not as rust resistant and is a lot harder to polish. 154CM takes a good finish easily, as does 440C, and pretty much splits the difference in edge holding between 440C and S30V. I would recommend getting the kind of knife you like without getting too hung up on the steel.




    - Frank




    I totally agree with Frank but i would be partial to 154CM because a lot of S30V knives chip and 440C wont retain the edge as well IMHO.
    jet


     
    Grampa
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    08-09-06 04:46.14 - Post#1005917    


        In response to Rohann

    • Rohann Said:
    Thanks for the reply.
    Well I decided on the Griptilian (I like it better) because the guy at Knifecenter found me one in 154cm, and S30V is supposed to be a real pain to sharpen.

    -Rohann


    Congrats! You've got yourself a fine knife! I'm a big fan of the Griptilian, and carry one constantly. 154CM is a great steel for knives, as well. You couldn't have done better in your price range! Other knives may have fancier handles, etc, but for a everyday do-it-all knife, the Grip is unbeatable!
    Cheers!
    Steve


    Be careful - It's sharp!




     
    CALPHAD
    Member
    *
    10-08-06 15:38.03 - Post#1054335    


        In response to Grampa

    There are at least two main differences between 440C and CPM S30V that I am aware of:

    1. CPM S30V is a wear and corrosion resistant martensitic tool-steel grade manufactured by using Crucible Particle Metallurgy (CPM, hence the name) process (i.e., CPM S30V it is a PM grade), whereas 440C is a conventionally ingot-cast steel. The microstructure of a PM grade is finer and more uniform compared to that of a conventional steel grade such as 440C.

    2. The alloying content of CPM S30V is significantly different from that of 440C (which is in essence just Fe-1C-17Cr). The nominal chemical composition of CPM S30V is as follows (in wt. %):

    C = 1.45
    Cr = 14
    V = 4
    Mo = 2

    The presence of vanadium in CPM S30V results in the precipitation of very hard vanadium-rich MC primary carbides, whose hardenss is about 3000 HV. The presence of 2 wt. % Mo contributes to the secondary-hardening effect, i.e., the higher hardness if tempered at higher tempering temperatures.

    440C contains only chromium-rich primary carbides (and they are noticably less hard than vanadium-rich primary carbides).

    Finally, the PM microstructure improves steel's toughness characteristics for a given chemical composition.

    Dr. K.

    www.calphad.com
     
    riddleofsteel
    Master Member KnifeNut!
    *
    10-14-06 11:23.06 - Post#1058533    


        In response to CALPHAD

    I have a Doug Ritter Benchmade bin S30V. I don't know much about micro carbides but I can offer some observations.
    When I got the knife it would slice cleanly thru paper but would not shave hair. As it was it was a meat and wood cutting demon. As far as skinning and wood craft that edge was perfectly serviceable. However, examining the blade under 10x loops reveled a shiny but not polished blade with what appeared to be small chips along the cutting edge.
    I started my usual process of polishing the blade using various grades of abrasive papers up to 2000 and finishing on a chromium dioxide charged leather hone. I finally got the blade polished but this process took several hours. I am in the habit of stropping a blade on a leather hone after daily use to maintain the edge as I do not like a knife to get dull. This seemed to keep the S30V blade in good order under light use. The problem came after heavy use during an extended fishing and camping trip when the blade got fairly dull under heavy use. I just could not face the long process of paper and hones to repolish the blade soe I took a diamond hone to it and took out the micro chips then finished the polish on a fine waterstone.
    The end result was a razor sharp blade that is chip free under the loops.

    S30V really holds an edge under fairly light use. Heavy work next to bone or in contact with hard surfaces results in micro chips along the blade edge. On a VG10 or A2 blade the main damge is the edge rolls over a little. Gentle stropping straightens it out and you go on. Polishing out chips sucks. I have finally decided that I should settle on a meat/wood cutting edge for this knife and leave the shaving edge to my Fallknivens and Bark Rivers.
    GIVE US KNIVES TO MATCH THE MOUNTAINS



     
    CALPHAD
    Member
    *
    10-15-06 15:04.09 - Post#1059699    


        In response to riddleofsteel

    These are very valuable and interesting observations. It would be also very interesting, just of pure curiosity, to examine the chipped edge under the scanning electron microscope to see exactly the mode and nature of that chipping. One could then see if the chipping is due to the primary carbides being pulled out of the steel's matrix, or is it the matrix that gets plastically deformed during the knife's use, or who knows what.

    Thanks for sharing your obseravtions.

    Dr. K.
    Computational Thermodynamics Inc.

    www.calphad.com


     


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