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    Username Post: VG-10 kitchen knife?        (Topic#921964)
    mark76
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 11:29.30 - Post#2462528    



    I want to get a kitchen knife for the rougher work, like deboning chicken. In my language (Dutch) we'd call this a cleaver, but I am a bit confused, since cleavers here and on CKTG are mainly used for chopping veggies.

    Until now, we always used my Fallkniven A1 for this type of work. I love it, since it doesn't even microchip after battoning with it. However, I have to admit it is a bit of overkill in the kitchen.

    There are a lot of similar knives available with the steel the A1 has: laminated VG-10. Quite a few Japanese kitchen knives seem to have this and Fallkniven also produce a kitchen knife with laminated VG-10.

    However, all of these kitchen knives are hardened to 61 HRC. One of the reasons we love the A1 is that is doesn't (micro-)chip. But it is hardened only to 59 HRC or so.

    Can anyone tell how well the hard VG-10 knives with a HRC of 61 will perform on tasks like deboning chicken? Or as cleavers/choppers for things that contain bone, so that shouldn't chip easily?

    Thanks!
     


    chefknivestogo
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 11:49.32 - Post#2462536    


        In response to mark76

    Hi Mark,

    Did we just email each other? I had this conversation with someone very recently. Shun actually came out with a cleaver that is made with AUS8A steel which is designed to be a meat cleaver and should be less chippy and better with rougher work than their veggie cleaver. They did a flexible fillet knife with the same steel that's pretty nice too.
    Richmond Artifex!


     
    mark76
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 12:32.04 - Post#2462551    


        In response to chefknivestogo

    Hi chefknivestogo,

    (Is this Mark?)

    No, I don't think we emailed eachother. Have you got a link to the knives you mentioned? Aus8 is regarded as a somewhat not-superior steel here, although I don't know why. If you've got any information about why Kai moved to this steel, I'd gladly know it.

    The main reason for my post is that I am extremely impressed with VG-10 @ HRC 59. I just wonder what the "chippyness" of VG-10 @ HRC 61 is. So whether it would be suitable for chopping things with bone in them.

    Edited by mark76 on 04-17-12 12:32.26. Reason for edit: No reason given.
     
    Michiel Vanhoudt
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 18:59.33 - Post#2462646    


        In response to mark76

    Chefknivestogo = Mark

    Mark76,

    I would look into Maestro Wu. they have some pretty thick cleavers designed for breaking chicken bones.

    There's also a CCK for this, but the Maestro Wu is nicer imo. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckbo...

    I wouldn't use a VG-10 kitchen knife to crush bones. It will chip. your A1 holds up because it's very thick and had a very heavy convex grind.
    Michiel


    MIKE #506

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    Edited by Michiel Vanhoudt on 04-17-12 19:01.40. Reason for edit: No reason given.
     
    tkern
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 19:46.36 - Post#2462651    


        In response to Michiel Vanhoudt

    Why is vg-10 a factor in this knife selection? Are you open to other steels?
    If you're primarily deboning chicken than get a honesuki.
    The Hattori FH line is VG-10 and puts out a very nice product.
    If you need some brutal short range work look at the CCK range of things. I'm not really sure what kind of steel they use but they offer a wide range of knives that will break down any once living beast.

    Edited by tkern on 04-17-12 19:47.37. Reason for edit: No reason given.
     
    mark76
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 22:30.51 - Post#2462666    


        In response to tkern

    Please let me rephrase my question. I am looking for either:

    - an all-purpose kitchen knife (like a small chefs knife) that can take a beating
    - or a cleaver that is not hurt when it cleaves a chicken bone

    The reason that I can still not phrase my question exactly is that I don’t know what a “cleaver” is in English. In Dutch it is a knife that can cleave something hard without getting hurt, almost like a small axe. It is tough. That is the quality I am looking for.

    That is why I mentioned VG-10, because I am extremely impressed with how tough my A1 is. But it was hardened only to HRC 59 and it is very thick, so I can imagine it is less tough in the kitchen (particularly at HRC 61).

    The Maestro Wu cleaver looks very attractive (particularly after having seen the shaving videos, Michiel :-), but I have never seen any specs of its steel. Are there any?

    Could anyone tell me what I should be looking for (which steel, which form factor, or what you deem relevant) rather than directly pointing to a particular knife?


    Edited by mark76 on 04-17-12 22:32.00. Reason for edit: No reason given.
     
    Michiel Vanhoudt
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 22:43.00 - Post#2462667    


        In response to mark76

    There are no specifications of the MW steel. It's carbon, but has some sort of protective coating so it doesn't oxidize.

    The shave was with a D11. that's a vegetable cleaver. MW has a lot of cleavers, but I think this is the one I saw crushing bones:

    http://www.jendeindustries.com/mm5/...
    Michiel


    MIKE #506

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    Rob Babcock
    Master Member KnifeNut!
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    04-17-12 22:45.16 - Post#2462668    


        In response to mark76

    Your Fallkniven A1 is overkill for the task but most VG-10 kitchen knives will cost about the same price. I agree that a Honesuke/Garitsuke would be perfect for you. A Tojiro or Kagayaki CarboNext would fill the role nicely.
    “You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” - Naguib Mahfouz

    Kitchen Knives


     
    TB_London
    Journeyman KnifeNut!
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    04-18-12 07:51.49 - Post#2462798    


        In response to Rob Babcock

    If you're jointing by going through the joints not the bones then a honesuki/garasuki/hankots u would fit the bill IMO.

    If you're planning to go through the bones then a cleaver - saw some vintage Beattys on eBay yesterday that would fit the bill, or a western deba (yo-deba). These are thick double beveled knives more tolerant of bones, but still not quite in cleaver territory. I have a Takeda 180 western deba, it's 7mm at the spine and is what I will use to break down chicken carcasses for stock etc
    The blue 2 Steel is a bit softer than it would be in other knives and the edge will deform rather than chip -since I added a micro bevel the edge holds up great though.
     
    Steel Angel
    Member
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    04-18-12 14:21.40 - Post#2462938    


        In response to mark76

    • mark76 Said:
    The reason that I can still not phrase my question exactly is that I don’t know what a “cleaver” is in English. In Dutch it is a knife that can cleave something hard without getting hurt, almost like a small axe. It is tough. That is the quality I am looking for.




    As a point of linguistics, I'll point out that many of the knives you'll see discussed that are called "cleavers" are not actually cleavers. Asian/Chinese cleavers are sometimes called such because they look similar to a butcher's cleaver, which actually is used to cleave through animal bones. Asian/Chinese cleavers are more accurately described in use by their other name, Chinese chef's knives, in that they're used for the general tasks a western style chef's knife would be used for even if not done in the exact same fashion.
     


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