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Username Post: Belt sander sharpening vid
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-14-09 14:29.43 - Post#1957549    

I just put this one up on Youtube. It puts an absolutely impossibly wicked convex edge on and is easy to do. The edge is a mirror when I am done.

Enjoy.

BRKCA MIKE1196






Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
10-15-09 00:30.12 - Post#1957733    

Aside from the ugly mug of the dude running the belt sander, that's a pretty good video.

In fact, I'm gonna sticky it if you don't mind Jeff.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-15-09 02:50.23 - Post#1957826    

David, I was having a bad hair day ok? Cut me some slack.


BRKCA MIKE1196






Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
10-15-09 02:57.45 - Post#1957835    

Oh, sorry bro didn't know. Slack cut.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Themachineworks
Member KnifeNut!

Themachineworks
10-15-09 10:42.18 - Post#1958164    

Great video! What make and model belt sander is that?

Thanks


TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-15-09 11:15.34 - Post#1958183    

It is a Wilton model 91046. I got it at Farm and Fleet but cannot find it anywhere on the web. I just got it like 4 months ago. It can't possibly be obsolete by now...very odd.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Themachineworks
Member KnifeNut!

Themachineworks
10-15-09 22:34.40 - Post#1958474    

Thanks, it looks like a handy tool. I cant see it being obsolete already? Unless they are all on a safety recall ha ha . I really like the way you used the leather belts for fine edge work, very cool. Looks like it takes skill though!
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-16-09 03:16.37 - Post#1958596    

No more skill than you possess. Just a little practice and a light touch.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Rider
Master Member KnifeNut!

10-16-09 15:12.54 - Post#1959143    

The Wilton run the belts with a lot less bounce than the Harbor Freight belt grinders. I have the Harbor Freight but would love to get my hands on the machine you have. The Harbor Freight is ok until you get to the leather belts and then it is out of control.
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-16-09 17:42.36 - Post#1959223    

The leather belts stretch. That's that problem. You can hear the rattle of the tensioner pulley bracket against the frame. It is at max travel and rattle on the leather belts. Just a little excess noise so I don't worry about it.

I bet a bigger and stronger spring could be found for the HF's...
BRKCA MIKE1196






COBALT1
Master Member KnifeNut!

COBALT1
10-23-09 20:17.56 - Post#1964904    

Jeff,
Where do you get the full array of belts you have?
You've got to stem the evil tide- Roger Waters

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-24-09 04:05.38 - Post#1965092    

I got the finer grits and leather belts from Lee Valley. I believe the microns are listed as 500 (maybe 600) and 1200.

I cannot find the lady on ebay that I got the 150, 240 and 400 grit belts from. If I find her, I will post it.
BRKCA MIKE1196






TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-24-09 04:20.53 - Post#1965103    

I found it. I had to go look at older purchases from Ebay and remembered her name when I saw it.

http://shop.ebay.com/barbkat/m.html...

The seller name is "barbkat".
BRKCA MIKE1196






locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
10-24-09 04:56.51 - Post#1965121    

  • COBALT1 Said:
Jeff,
Where do you get the full array of belts you have?



You can get a pretty good assortment of top quality belts fron Doug Rising right here on the forum.
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-24-09 08:35.06 - Post#1965241    

Is that his forum name?
BRKCA MIKE1196






COBALT1
Master Member KnifeNut!

COBALT1
10-24-09 08:56.13 - Post#1965267    

  • locutus Said:

You can get a pretty good assortment of top quality belts fron Doug Rising right here on the forum.




As Jeff asked is that his forum name?

Jeff Thanks for the heads up!
You've got to stem the evil tide- Roger Waters

locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
10-24-09 09:55.20 - Post#1965295    

  • COBALT1 Said:
  • locutus Said:

You can get a pretty good assortment of top quality belts fron Doug Rising right here on the forum.




As Jeff asked is that his forum name?

Jeff Thanks for the heads up!




yep
That's his forum name.

dougrising@yahoo.con
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-24-09 10:03.26 - Post#1965302    

Cool deal. Thanks.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
10-25-09 15:54.01 - Post#1966174    

I was researching belt sanders and found two Wiltons, one with 1 x42 and one with 2x42. What is the tradeoff between the two other than the $20 or so difference. Is there an advantage to the wider belt - I assume the wider the belt the more they cost?
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-26-09 02:01.55 - Post#1966355    

1x42's are great also. I wouldn't go with a 2x( ) for sharpening though. The trick is to not remove a lot of material and carefully watch the blade. I would think with twice the blade contact, there would be twice the ability to have a problem. I could be exactly wrong about that, having never used one for sharpening, but I have been to several Bark River Grind in's and used their 2x72's and know the power they have and what a 2" belt is capable of. I am definitely open to another opinion on this though.
BRKCA MIKE1196






bbcampbell
Journeyman KnifeNut!

bbcampbell
10-26-09 05:53.41 - Post#1966536    

Hey Twinblade, where can one purchase the 30" leather belts?
Thanks,
Bob
"A little revolution can be a good thing."

cbwx34
Master Member KnifeNut!

cbwx34
10-26-09 06:20.18 - Post#1966554    

Here's 2 options for the leather belts...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page....

http://woodworker.com/1x30-leather-... belt&searchmode=2
cbw

Used Sharpening Equipment For Sale

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-26-09 07:00.31 - Post#1966572    

The Lee Valley link is where I got my leather belts from Bob. This method will make that BM that you bought from me a freak of a cutter. D2 is tricky steel...it has to be SUPER refined due to the very large carbides. The results I get with this method on D2 is simply off the charts. I just got a couple more knives from customers in and one of them is a Queen Stockman in D2. The edges are simply off the charts.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
10-27-09 16:41.30 - Post#1967778    

This advice plus some from other threads convinced me and I ordered the 1x42. Should be here Friday - now I need to get some belts.
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
10-27-09 23:24.01 - Post#1967848    

Awesome. Make sure you let us know how it ends up working out for you.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
10-28-09 01:55.29 - Post#1967923    

Ok you convinced me. I've got a belt sander coming and my second BRKT as well. Which leads to a question. With a practically unused knife, like a Bravo 1 SS or a H&C Special, how would you "touch it up" to keep it sharp? Frequent passes on the leather with green compound, less frequent passes on the black compound followed by green, or something else? What about hand touch ups with a BRKT field strop kit?
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-28-09 02:56.59 - Post#1967988    

I actually mention it in my video. If you are regimented in keeping up with the condition of your edges, you will almost never have to go to a more aggressive grit than the 9 micron (which I have come to find out is 1200 grit on Lee Valleys belts) and when they get worn in a bit, that grit actually gets much finer. It removes almost nothing on the blade at all (maybe a couple ten thousandths of an inch) yet still raises a very slight micro burr to refine the edge. A lot of times, the black compound on a leather belt is plenty for my edges.

The convex edges on Bark Rivers have yet to be touched up by myself in the field. I have put them through some incredibly extensive use and they still nearly shave after a lot of my field reviews and testing. I never carry a field hone with me, but that's just my personal choice.

Jeff
BRKCA MIKE1196






Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

10-28-09 07:12.11 - Post#1968209    

Check your PM's.

Doug
locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
10-28-09 09:30.06 - Post#1968299    

And if you really want a "bragging rights" edge, after finishing up with the belt sander, get some .25 and .1 micron diamond spray and lightly hand strop it on a good HandAmerican leather hone!
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

bbcampbell
Journeyman KnifeNut!

bbcampbell
10-30-09 11:54.14 - Post#1969852    

Hey Twinblade!, I've been offline for a couple of days. I use the BM, in D-2 almost everyday. I have an Edgemaster belt sharpener, and even though I have read a few negative comments, around here about them, it does an amazing job, for me. The main difference (that I can see, from your excellent vid), is that the Edgemaster's belt runs horizontally, instead of vertically. It make it very easy to see the "burr". I've never used a leather belt on it, but an old slick-worn belt polishes pretty well. I ordered a leather belt, from Lee Valley, per suggestions, but haven't gotten it yet.
I have been sharpening some 10" blade butcher knives, for a local county bar-be que organization (The Mesquite Burners), and they are amazed at the edges that I put on their knives, with my Edgemaster.
Thanks,
Bob
"A little revolution can be a good thing."

Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
10-31-09 03:38.03 - Post#1970222    

I was hoping my 1x42 Wilton would be delivered yesterday but the snowstorm apparently held it up. I also ordered a variety of belts from Supergrit. I'm heading off Elk hunting in a little over a week from today and hope to get some practice with some of my lesser value knives and axes. My good hunting knives are Barkies and they'll still sharp enough to slice paper, but I have a number of older general purpose knives and camp axes that I intend to practice on.

One question for the experienced here, are there any special techniques to be aware of when sharpening non-convex grind knives on the belt - I'd like to convert a couple to a convex grind and figure the cheaper knives would be a good place to start before tackling my better knives.
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
10-31-09 06:36.44 - Post#1970337    

There is no trick to converting an edge bro. Just sharpen your knives like the video. The belt sander does not discriminate between edge grinds and you will end up with a convex edge on all your knives without any change in how you sharpen them on the belt sander. One of the immediate benefits will be the shoulder at the top of the edge grind getting blended and rounded which will improve cutting performance.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
10-31-09 15:22.53 - Post#1970594    

Thanks, the Wilton came today and now I'm waiting for the first belts to arrive. I couldn't find anything smaller than 800 grit to order online, but I'm calling Surgisharp Monday to find a dealer of the leather belts.

Unfortunately the Trizac belts from Doug Rising will take a while via snail mail so I will wait until after my hunting trip.
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
11-01-09 03:27.20 - Post#1970817    

Good luck hunting.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
11-01-09 04:10.18 - Post#1970867    

  • Consultant Said:
Thanks, the Wilton came today and now I'm waiting for the first belts to arrive. I couldn't find anything smaller than 800 grit to order online, but I'm calling Surgisharp Monday to find a dealer of the leather belts.

Unfortunately the Trizac belts from Doug Rising will take a while via snail mail so I will wait until after my hunting trip.



Update to the online ordering. Turns out Lee Valley has the belts down to 1200 grit and 15micro plus leather. I've ordered some more from them.
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
11-04-09 14:50.51 - Post#1973925    

Got the belts yesterday and finally got around to trying to sharpen something today. Not wanting to ruin any good knives practicing I grabbed a Browning Bird knife, an old machete, a splitting maul, an axe and a hatchet. I started with a 50 grit and worked up to 320 before quitting for the night. It's amazing how sharp I got everything just on my first try and without even getting to the really small grit belts. I was even able to slice paper with the axe and hatchet, although raggedly. Still even that was impressive.

The bird knife was interesting. I definitely noticed the burr forming and disappearing with the finer grit papers. Mike was right, it doesn't take a lot of skill to get good results - I'm sure with just a little more practice I'll be able to get that factory scary-sharp edge on high quality knives.

I did notice one problem. The belts are probably made by creating a 42 inch cylinder and then slicing off 1 inch belts. The result is the markings on the inside of the belts that tell you what grit they are are sometimes hard to find - and in the finer grits I couldn't tell which belts are finer than others. I'm going to have to examine them closely in bright daylight and mark them accordingly.
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
11-05-09 05:01.56 - Post#1974333    

You can call me anything you want, except late for supper, but I usually go by Jeff bro.

Keep up the great work on it and keep us posted on how well you can get the edges refined.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

11-05-09 07:35.47 - Post#1974452    

For light colored belts (Mylar), use a black permanent marker to write the grit # on the inside. Dark colored belts will contrast better using a paint stick (white or bright yellow), sold in most hardware stores.

Keeps from driving you crazy and makes belt selection much faster.
QuietOne
Master Member KnifeNut!

11-05-09 12:26.10 - Post#1974671    

Doug's got it right there.

I go so far as to write the grit in only one direction, the direction of rotation, and I write the number every 3 or 4 inches so it's easy to find.
Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
11-08-09 03:56.29 - Post#1976475    

All great ideas, I've been at my 40th reunion and just got back, but I'm heading out on the Elk hunting trip as soon as I get the RV packed, so no more knife sharpening until I get back.
ESSE NON VIDERI
MIKE #1969
Founding Member

DocCP
Member

DocCP
11-26-09 08:24.37 - Post#1990738    

Being fairly new to the art of sharpening good knives and living outside the U.S. its a bit difficult to compare specifications. I wonder what is the belt-speed of your grinder / sander and from where do you get your sully of fine-grind belts and leather-belts?
Thanks.
oronocova
Member KnifeNut!

11-26-09 14:23.11 - Post#1990930    

Hello and thanks. I saw your video, went out and bought a 30 dollar belt sander at Harbor Freight. And now even just using 120 grit then the backside of a worn belt with green compound the edges I can get are amazing.
I have proper belts on the way but of course I had to try it out with what I had.
This is awesome I'll be sharpening everything in the house and probably will drive the wife nuts.

A question... does anyone have the HF belt sander (or any for that matter) and have a problem with static build up? I had to connect a wire from the frame of the sander to me to keep it from knock the crap out of me. Even in a grounded socket or grounded to the workbench it was setting on it would stick shock me. Maybe the frame is not connected to the ground on the plug, I have not looked into it.

Oh well just wanted to say thanks for this very informative video.
Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
11-27-09 14:25.46 - Post#1991494    

I know what you mean, I bought a Wilton a few weeks ago and now I'm sharpening everything in my inventory. I don't have any problems with static - maybe your sander isn't grounded properly. My problem is organizing all my belts! I discovered that some of them don't have any markings to let you know what grit they are - and in the finer grits, it's hard to tell the difference.

I've also discovered other uses for my belt sander in working metal that would normally be done on a bench grinder, which I don't have.
wstwood
Master Member KnifeNut!

wstwood
11-27-09 19:01.11 - Post#1991594    

It strikes me that static discharge can be caused by a missing ground.

Just a WAG.
"When all other rights have been taken away, the right of rebellion is made perfect."

Thomas Paine.

Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
11-29-09 13:20.56 - Post#1992692    

On a slightly different vein, I need some advice. I've been playing with my belt sander and getting good results so far practicing on my lessor quality knives. Now it gets sticky - I have a BRKT knife that managed to get a very small nick in the blade. I don't want to radically attack it with the belt sander and was wondering what the best approach would be to removing the nick. The blade has been stropped with my field kit and still slices paper cleanly except for the nick. Should I just use leather belts with the black and green compound and try to polish out the nick or start with lower grit belts? If the latter, what would be a good grit to start with?
wstwood
Master Member KnifeNut!

wstwood
11-29-09 13:24.15 - Post#1992695    

If it is a small nick, start out with a bit higher grit, it will cut slower and you will have more control.

I have not upgraded to a belt sander yet. So I will defer further comment to someone with more knowledge than I.
"When all other rights have been taken away, the right of rebellion is made perfect."

Thomas Paine.

QuietOne
Master Member KnifeNut!

11-30-09 02:11.20 - Post#1992964    

Depends on the "nick" if it is small enough, just sharpen over it as normal, that will smooth it over and you use it normally with a "tooth" over time, 2 - 6 sharpening sessions it will disappear.
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
11-30-09 05:26.24 - Post#1993067    

  • DocCP Said:
Being fairly new to the art of sharpening good knives and living outside the U.S. its a bit difficult to compare specifications. I wonder what is the belt-speed of your grinder / sander and from where do you get your sully of fine-grind belts and leather-belts?
Thanks.


I am pretty sure it is 3450 RPM's and I get many of my belts from LeeValley.com. I think the 20 micron and 9 micron belts are listed as 500 grit and 1200 grit. The lower grits are readily accessible from a lot of places. Find a price that you like and make the purchase.

As far as the comment about the nick, I agree with the comment on leaving it alone and let it disappear over time. That is what I do for all of my knives if they get a nick.
BRKCA MIKE1196






oronocova
Member KnifeNut!

12-05-09 03:12.31 - Post#1996999    

I've still been practicing and have a few more belts on the way. I have not got a leather belt yet but will in the future. I did however get two "linen" belts from Klingspor as well as some of their "Gold" 400 grit. Seems like the linen belts take compound "ok" and I was able to get good results. For 2 bucks and change per linen belt it's a good deal I think. I don't believe it would compare to leather but I don't have one to try. With green compound on a linen belt though I was able to put a near mirror shine on some cheap stainless knives. I also worked on my little Brusletto a bit with the linen and it started to buff out pretty nice. Cuts very very smooth. Their Gold material belts look like they work very well and are supposed to not clog as bad. One thing to note Klingspor's linen belts are too big for my Harbor Freight sander. My soluition was to put on a belt that fit and the linen belt on the outside of that one (double them up.) It is not perfect but works very well with no slipping but a little more flop than is ideal.
oronocova
Member KnifeNut!

12-05-09 04:33.26 - Post#1997048    

^ Sorry I misspoke. It's the Klingspor's Gold 1x30 400 grit that is slightly too big for my HF sander. I tried all three that I received, they are all the same size. But if you double it up over one of the linen belts it does fine.
DocCP
Member

DocCP
12-08-09 08:53.16 - Post#1999939    

Thanks for good advise. I have in the meantime bought a cheap chinese 1x30 belt sander similar to the HF. Belts finer than 320 grit is not availiable in Norway so I found Lee Valley very helpful. Even better was the reasonable shipping-costs from the people at www.thewoodcraftsho.com However they dont stock the 1x30 sandingbelts, but they did have the SurgiSharp leather belts.
Priming the rough side of a belt with Bark River green compund rally put a perfect polished convex edge on my knives that were allready fairly sharp.
I can really recommend the leather belts and will return with my progress as I get more poficient. Lets just say that this equipment puts my Tormek T7 more or less out of use.
I have
DocCP
Member

DocCP
12-11-09 01:02.53 - Post#2002377    

It is probably bad forum-form to reply to your own reply. Typographic errors in the last posting was due to haste and a bad keyboard. However the message was that this way of sharpening is brilliant and I am eternally grateful to Twinblade for starting the thread.
(The link to the shop selling the SurgiSharp belt is of course www.thewoodcraftshop.com )
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
12-12-09 18:18.59 - Post#2003869    

Ain't no thing bro. Glad to help.

I have responded to several of my own threads and posts. Makes me feel useful.

I am sure David will argue that point, but I really can be useful now and then...
BRKCA MIKE1196






Hkrobin
Journeyman KnifeNut!

12-14-09 05:45.07 - Post#2005068    

It's worth pointing out that the leather belt Lee Valley sells is a SurgiSharp belt.
DocCP
Member

DocCP
12-14-09 08:41.57 - Post#2005257    

The belt from the woodcraft shop was also the Surgi Sharp. Priced at 15$
Jacksonville Koi Supply
Member

12-26-09 09:47.12 - Post#2015564    

I am very new, and didn't see anyone referencing cooking knives in this thread. I don't know why it would be any different between a field knife and a cooking knife, but wanted to make sure. I am looking for a good chef's knife right now, and have no experience with sharpening. This belt sander seems like the easiest and cheapest way to keep the knife sharp.
wstwood
Master Member KnifeNut!

wstwood
12-28-09 07:00.54 - Post#2016732    

Just get a couple yard sale knives to practice on.
"When all other rights have been taken away, the right of rebellion is made perfect."

Thomas Paine.

locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
12-29-09 07:52.32 - Post#2017529    

Check the "In the kitchen" section on this forum.
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
12-30-09 01:30.17 - Post#2017984    

  • Jacksonville Koi Supply Said:
I am very new, and didn't see anyone referencing cooking knives in this thread. I don't know why it would be any different between a field knife and a cooking knife, but wanted to make sure. I am looking for a good chef's knife right now, and have no experience with sharpening. This belt sander seems like the easiest and cheapest way to keep the knife sharp.



A belt sander will work very well, but the effect on the knife will depend on your skill and the grind/edge grind of the knife. As Ron suggested, check out the Kitchen Forum for suggestions on kitchen knives. Those folks really know their stuff!
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Consultant
Master Member KnifeNut!

Consultant
01-01-10 11:07.01 - Post#2019683    

+1on this thread.

The video convinced me to get a belt sander, in my case a Wilton 1x42" and some belts. Practicing on some real old knives I had gave me the confidence to work on high quality knives (see my post in this forum on Fixing a Nick). After watching Jeff's video the belt sander technique was easy to pick up and use. He did advise me to have a glass of water handy to keep the blade cool as I was working with a narrow tip.

Another plus, there's a whole drawer-full of old stones and sharpening tools that I can now donate to someone. I'm strictly a convex grinding, leather stropping, belt sander using sharpener now, and never going back.
Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

01-04-10 12:00.51 - Post#2022085    

I have to say that if you have ANY predelection towards commercial sharpening, the belt is the way to go. There is any manner of grits available to you depending on your selected market niche. The forum will help direct you to the sources you need.

Good Luck!

Doug
rpaulpen
Member

01-06-10 01:14.25 - Post#2023462    

I came across this video on YouTube a while back and it's been very helpful. I received a Delta belt sander as a birthday gift years ago. It was still sitting in a box unused. I ordered some belts from LeeValley and went nuts on all my knives. I can't believe how simple it is to get a knife sharp using this method. I guess I can finally get rid of all those sharpening gadgets I've bought over the years.

Thanks for sharing!

Paul
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
01-09-10 12:12.58 - Post#2026833    

Glad it has helped you.

Welcome to Knife Forums.
BRKCA MIKE1196






steelheadr
Journeyman KnifeNut!

steelheadr
01-19-10 17:50.44 - Post#2036294    

I've been trying to reprofile an old folder (LB7) to a convex edge by hand for a few days now. In the past, others have mentioned using a belt sander and the Harbor Freight model is most frequently mentioned. I really like the look of this Wilton much better. Any link to an online or store front retailer?

Thanks,
Jay
gary jp4
Master Member KnifeNut!

01-20-10 04:30.56 - Post#2036529    

Steelheadr,

The Harbor Freight is a 1x30" (or uses a 1x30" belt). The HF unit is pretty much a POS, but it gets the job done very well. Some of the problems are tracking, speed to high, cheap construction, etc. But at $40, small foot print, and light weight, who is complaining?

The two sizes you will find in these smaller sanders is 1x30" and 1x42". Twinblades unit appears to be a 1x42". I don't think it was mentioned anywhere in here. I like the 1x42" better, but there are advantages to the 1x30 for some folks due the the size, weight for transporting, etc.

The one in the video may be obsolete as Twin Blade mentioned earlier, but I believe it is a 1x42". They definitely still make a 1x42" sander just maybe not that model. Here are some of them and places to get them.
http://www.google.com/products?hl=e...

I have a Delta, also obsolete. The Grizzly 1x42" is the same one I think and still in production. It also looks a lot like the Wilton in the vid if you removed the guards, table, etc. One of the nice things about these is you can change pulleys and slow it down since they use a belt drive. I have a 3 step pulley system on my Delta. On expensive, professional, high power units they have motor speed controllers. Read all about slowing down a Delta/Grizely/(and probably works on a Wilton) here. . Some of the other things about these, compared to a HF is the belts track better, they use a slower belt speed (even if you don't step them down, they have more power, and down't vibrate as much (are heavier).

I would seriously consider a Kalamazoo if you are going to be a serious user/sharpener but not a knife maker. This is commonly refereed to as a Baldor as Baldor makes the motor. It is a simple unit but with high quality parts and may come out a little cheaper then the Wilton since there is no miter table extra pulley, belt, or side sanding wheel, etc. Just two pulleys. You have to mount it though. See J Neilson using one here. .

On any of these that you dedicate to sharpening you will probably want to remove all the extra garbage like safety guards, miter tables, side sanders, etc. for ease of belt changes.

Read about belt sander sharpening in general HERE .

Gary
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
01-21-10 09:39.21 - Post#2037694    

Actually mine is a 1x30. It is a Wilton and I cannot find the same one ANYWHERE be it online or at farm And Fleet where I bought it. There was a lot of quality built into a small price tag on this one. Probably why it can't be found anymore...
BRKCA MIKE1196






steelheadr
Journeyman KnifeNut!

steelheadr
01-22-10 08:13.02 - Post#2038588    

I've seen all the videos I can find and read more than I should. I'm just not sure if I should spend the $40 for the HF model or $150-200 for the Grizzly or Kalamazoo. Once I have my knives convexed, the sander probably won't see too much use. My brain says HF but my heart likes a bit more quality product than the HF appears to be. It seems like having a 1x42 belt opens up a few more belt options, compared to the 1x30.

Jay
QuietOne
Master Member KnifeNut!

01-22-10 13:56.49 - Post#2038838    

You can always use the Delta or Grizzly for wood and metal work which it was built for.

The HF doesn't hold up for long when you start using it for wood and metal projects (and it's not very good at it either). The Delta/Grizzly actually works at stock removal well enough that you can get some steel and make your own knives.

Give it a shot it's fun. Harder than I thought and I wouldn't show any of mine off yet, but I've learned a few things. For one chefs knife design is way trickier than I thought.
Empty Telephone
Member

01-30-10 09:12.26 - Post#2045827    

I have a question but before I ask I wanted to say thanks to TwinBlade for starting this thread. It's been very helpful to me and has gotten me started in the sharpening world.

I recently purchased the HF 1 x 30 sander and have practiced with a few knives with pretty good results (as I wait for more belts to arrive). One problem I have noticed however is that it seems that the drive pulley is not centered on the motor shaft. This is especially noticeable with the leather belt as it seems to jump a bit.

Does anyone know of a higher quality replacement pulley that is available?

Thanks.
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-01-10 17:29.09 - Post#2048137    

Did you try to contact the maker or supplier regarding this? Aftermarket pulleys on a cheap belt sander (and I use cheap loosely because mine is also cheap) is going to be almost non existent my friend.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-02-10 11:09.57 - Post#2048980    

The pulley on the motor shaft is adjustable, there's a set screw through the face of the pulley.

The other pulleys are also replaceable, you can order them from HF, of at least they were two years ago when I got two sets for mine.

The bearings are also standard ball bearings which are easily pressed out of the plastic wheels and replaced.

I got two years out of a HF 1X30 machine using it exclusively on Kydex on almost a daily basis.

The tracking adjustment broke on mine when something fell on it. The motor in the replacement went bad after about a year and it's now running on the motor from the original.

They're not bad machines for the price.
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Empty Telephone
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02-03-10 02:36.33 - Post#2049559    

Thanks for the tips.

I'll try that set screw on the drive pulley. I had loosened that set screw before when I was checking to see if the motor shaft was bent but didn't think to use the screw as an adjustment. I'll report back with the results.

I think I'm getting better at sharpening using this method but my results are definitely inconsistent at this time. I've got a few knives sharp enough to shave arm hair but I think I need to work on keeping my angles consistent.
RobertLB
Master Member KnifeNut!

RobertLB
03-01-10 11:37.40 - Post#2073160    

I just picked up a HF 1x30 today. i also ordered the leather belt, a couple 1200grt and a coupl 15 micron belts from lee valley..mine also shocks me, i tightened the green grounding wire but it still does it..other then that it works great..maybe i will try grounding the frame.
Robert...

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Never put off tomorrow what will wait until the day after..I plan ahead that way I don't do anything right now..
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Bridger
Master Member KnifeNut!

Bridger
03-01-10 14:08.53 - Post#2073309    

  • RobertLB Said:
.mine also shocks me, i tightened the green grounding wire but it still does it..other then that it works great..maybe i will try grounding the frame.



Mine shocks me too. Shouldn't the machine already be grounded through the plug? I thought it might just be static electricity buildup, but that didn't make complete sense to me either.
locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
03-01-10 14:53.35 - Post#2073348    

Take a key or screwdriver in hand, and touch the machine to discharge any static charge. Then touch it by hand.

If that cures the problem, it's static electricity.

If it doesn't, your machine might be dangerous to use.
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

wstwood
Master Member KnifeNut!

wstwood
03-02-10 02:39.25 - Post#2073642    

Hostile to the touch eh?

Ground the frame and try it again.

A good ground should deal with static discharge.
"When all other rights have been taken away, the right of rebellion is made perfect."

Thomas Paine.

locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
03-02-10 04:03.23 - Post#2073701    

[quote=wstwood
A good ground should deal with static discharge.



Unless the "shock" is caused by static electricity built up on your body, not the machine.
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

cbwx34
Master Member KnifeNut!

cbwx34
03-02-10 07:39.32 - Post#2073852    

I think a repeat of what locutus posted in another thread (a summary of what garyjp4 posted)) is worth repeating here...

  • locutus Said:
NEVER GROUND YOURSELF WHEN USING ANY ELECTRICAL APPLIANCE!

IF INSULATION BREAKS DOWN, OR ANY OTHER WIRING MALFUNCTION OCCURS, YOU ARE COMPLETING A PATH TO GROUND THROUGH YOUR BODY!!!


Gary is spot on! Make sure the machine is grounded, and make sure you are not grounded!



Bridger
Master Member KnifeNut!

Bridger
03-02-10 10:56.29 - Post#2074032    

I knew I shouldn't have been grinding while standing barefoot in that puddle of salt water.
Seriously though, I'll be sure to check the ground to the machine. It was just giving me a small shock about every 15 seconds nowhere close to licking the outlet or something. That's why I speculated about static electricity being the culprit. I just wasn't sure if the belt could build up a charge on the metal of the knife. We didn't cover knives and sanding belts when I took physics in college.
cbwx34
Master Member KnifeNut!

cbwx34
03-02-10 11:03.23 - Post#2074044    

I'm pretty sure it's static... I get it too, but only in the winter when the air's really dry, and usually only the leather belt.

But I didn't know about the ground thing... I figured it was a warning worth repeating.

cbw
ken123
Master Member KnifeNut!

ken123
03-02-10 14:36.52 - Post#2074226    

For the bored, here's a read on grounding. The fault in grounding might be the ground of the outlet itself and adding a GFIC circuit may be of help as well. There are instruments for testing grounding conditions of outlets, which may not be at a true earth ground level.

http://www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/...

I'd try hoooking the sander up to another outlet, perhaps near a bathroom sink, which usually has a GFIC built in. The outlets have a test button on them and a reset button.

I'd also check for any corrosion or other causes of increased resistance in the grounding wire and contact points, including the cord and all connection points.

Hopefully someone with more expertise than me might have a better answer. I KNOW you don't want a ground loop going across your chest - say from one arm to the other for obvious reasons.

---
Ken
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JxMAN25
Journeyman KnifeNut!

03-03-10 12:06.04 - Post#2075227    

for a regular v shape edge could you guys give me some links on how to use the small stones like the one he used to dull the knife. What are they called
Battle Creek Knives
Member

03-13-10 14:09.49 - Post#2084568    

thx for the vid.

where do you get your paper? most importantly the leather belts?..

they're like 20 at lee valley and I hear you can get the leather for 15 elsewhere.

also when you're sharpening do you have the blade almost parallel with the belt? maybe 5degrees?
RobertLB
Master Member KnifeNut!

RobertLB
03-14-10 14:53.20 - Post#2085447    

It was the outlet and not the machine. I moved the hf to the kitchen using a GFI outlet and the shock went away..
Robert...

Life long practitioner of the art of Gun-Fu...

Never put off tomorrow what will wait until the day after..I plan ahead that way I don't do anything right now..
BRCA MIKE #444

Sharpmedic
Member

03-22-10 11:48.43 - Post#2092651    

I am new at serious sharpening, I have a decent set of stones, jsut got them from sharpeningsupplies.com, and I was given a 1/30 belt sander,,similiar ot the HF, it is made by Chicago Machinery, I have a good set of belts from Lee Valley and some of the green bar compound,,I got all the above with the intentios of starting a small business sharpening in the future,,only after I feel confident I can sharpen most anything,,so far my experience with stones have been great,,I can get a very nice edge on my blades,,arm hair shaving, I have also been able to use the belt sander with great results,,I did hit a kink,,I was doing a set of kitchen knives,,6 in all,,the first 3 went very well was able to get them sharp fairly easily,,but then # 4 popped up,,for some reason I just could not get an edge on it,,agter afew tries I gave up, skipped it and went to the other 2,,well the next one went well,,but #6 was the same as #4, lol,,after a few tries I put it along with #4 and finished off the other 4,,all hair shaving sharp,,then went back to the 2 oddballs,,I was finally able to get a decent edge on them but neither as shapr as theothers,,has anything like that ever happened to any of you??,,
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
03-22-10 23:40.57 - Post#2093027    

Sometimes a certain knife just doesn't want to get all the way sharp on the first try. Could be the steel, the heat treat, how you happen to be holding that knife, the amount of pressure you are using, etc.

Usually a pause before a second go at it sets things right.
David

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locutus
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locutus
03-23-10 05:05.54 - Post#2093284    

Don't know it I'm right or wrong, but IME, I don't usually get the full potential of the blade until about the third sharpening.
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

Sharpmedic
Member

03-23-10 10:34.37 - Post#2093599    

I guess some knives are just stubborn, was working on a few today,,2 went jsut fine,,but then the last one wanted to be stubborn,,I never did get it as sharp as the first 2,,not sure what I am doing wrong,,guess I need more practice,,already shapened everythign I can get my hands on, lol,,will just keep trying,,
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
03-23-10 23:45.30 - Post#2094024    

  • locutus Said:
Don't know it I'm right or wrong, but IME, I don't usually get the full potential of the blade until about the third sharpening.



It seems to be that way with some knives. I firmly believe it is due to factory sharpening jigs and slightly overheating the edge as it is sharpened, thus changing the properties of the steel for a few microns on the edge. Once that is sharpened off if can make a big difference.
David

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ken123
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ken123
03-24-10 06:37.16 - Post#2094311    

In ADDITION to what has already been said, sometimes I have good luck just regrinding the edge because you just aren't getting to the 'edge of the edge' especially if I'm doing a flat grind and the previous grind was imprecise. Especially true on single beveled knives. Similarly on a convex grind if the Degree of 'convexitivity' doesn't allow you to get out all the way to the edge, this happens too. Often a critical view with some magnification can sort this out.

---
Ken
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Simms65
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Simms65
03-24-10 23:28.56 - Post#2094920    

That is a very good point as well.
David

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Sharpmedic
Member

03-26-10 02:58.30 - Post#2096069    

I have a set of aluminum oxide belts from Lee valley, in 80, 120,150 and 220 grit, and a leather belt as well,,they seem to do a good job am just wondering if the zirconia belts were better than the aluminum oxide?,,
pcm81
Master Member KnifeNut!

pcm81
03-28-10 07:41.37 - Post#2097897    

I have a question about belt sanders and other mechanized sharpening. Don't want to sound like a hater, but every time I see sparks flying I cringe thinking about the sparks actually being red hot metal shavings as well as the localized microscopic de-tempering which occurs on the very edge. Now, my question is: is it really a problem? Has any one compared the duration the edge sharpened by hand on the stone vs edge sharpened on a grinder lasts? I know that Japanese are very inventive, so it definitely says something for water stones vs belt sanders that they still sharpen good knives by hand on stones...

I am not a professional knife sharpener, so time is not an issue for me, I am just wondering if there really is a sacrifice, which is made by using mechanized sharpeners, like wheels and belts vs flat stones...

Thanks
wstwood
Master Member KnifeNut!

wstwood
03-28-10 08:02.23 - Post#2097912    

ALL knives come from the factory with machined edges.

It is simply to slow to hand sharpen.

I see no gain to hand sharpening.

I see no loss to using a belt grinder.

I dont think micro detempering is an issue.
"When all other rights have been taken away, the right of rebellion is made perfect."

Thomas Paine.

Sharpmedic
Member

03-28-10 09:30.43 - Post#2097983    

I just got done sharpening 12 old steak knives for a friend, I cannot remember the brand but they were very thin stainless steel, they had serrations but they were worn down badly,I ground the serrations off and put a convex edge on them,,I worked each one through my netire range of belts and they will cut paper easily now, they did get some heat build up but when one would get warm I would put it down and grab another one, never letting either of them get hot enough that I could not touch them,,not even close really,,so to me heat build up is not a problem as long as you watch what goes on,,I could have got a can of water just as easily but since I had several to do it was easier for me to just lay one down and grab another giving them time to cool off. the belt grinder is a great tool for sharpening,,easy to learn,,I am doing fairly well on mine and if I can do it hell anyone can,,lol
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
03-28-10 23:24.44 - Post#2098446    

It all falls down to heat management. If you linger on a spot too long, you may very easily ruin the temper of the steel at the edge. The benefit and danger to mechanized sharpening is the speed.
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ldmf
Member

04-13-10 11:10.16 - Post#2109991    

I absolutely love this method of sharpening my knives. I have been fairly successful in getting a sharp edge. My only problem is that I am not retaining the point of the blade. I have been only practicing with my kitchen knives (good quality, Henkel two man). Do you guys have any suggestions on how not to round the tip? I haven't sharpened any of my EDCK yet because of this user error. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Sharpmedic
Member

04-13-10 11:18.20 - Post#2109998    

I am not an expert at all, am still learning myself,,but I have sharpened around 50 different knives on mine,including, kitchen knives, steak, 3 BM,s,,couple of rat 1,s, my new Cold steel Blacj Rhino,,each of the folding knives are razor sharp,,literally shaving sharp,,and I have kept the point on each of them,,I think the trick is to pull the point up before it rolls over the edge of the belt,,thats what I do and it works for me,,hope this helps,,I am sure there are many others here than can give you much better advice,,but thats my .02 anyway
wwilson
Master Member KnifeNut!

wwilson
04-14-10 08:59.05 - Post#2110608    

I thought I was really on the ball after sharpening several beater knives and axes...then I went to convexing my Fallkniven U2 and burned the tip right off of that SGPS steel...now it looks like a sodbuster! So be careful in what you're doing and don't let over confidence ruin a great knife for ya!

Billy
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QuietOne
Master Member KnifeNut!

04-14-10 13:41.27 - Post#2110781    

Keep the edge level to the floor. Follow the curve the edge is _______ to the floor, follow it. Doesn't matter how curved it is keep the contact with the belt ________ to the floor.

Pull the handle UP not out. UP.

Don't stop moving the blade. Touch the blade to the belt moving and keep it moving.

You're good to go.
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
04-14-10 23:42.42 - Post#2110963    

Excellent advice.
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vandy12
Member

04-27-10 18:07.05 - Post#2118967    

Very nice video. I just got my sander a few days ago. Couple of questions. Can you do a traditional bevel on a belt sander or does it always have to be convex? Second, do you typically use hearing protection and some kind of mask to keep the metal particles out of your lungs along with the eye protection?

Vandy
wstwood
Master Member KnifeNut!

wstwood
04-28-10 04:09.01 - Post#2119167    

A convex grind IS a traditional grind.

Only in the mechanical revolution did we start seeing blades with V grinds.

You can make a V grind with a machine.

A convex grind has to be hand applied.

Can you put a V grind on a knife with a belt sander? Yes you can.

But with the belt sander available, WHY would you want to put an inferior V grind on your knife?
"When all other rights have been taken away, the right of rebellion is made perfect."

Thomas Paine.

locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
04-28-10 07:50.26 - Post#2119336    

[quote=wstwood
But with the belt sander available, WHY would you want to put an inferior V grind on your knife?



Because it cuts better and lasts longer????
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

COBALT1
Master Member KnifeNut!

COBALT1
04-28-10 09:27.04 - Post#2119399    

  • locutus Said:
Because it cuts better and lasts longer????




Rabble-rouser!!!!
You've got to stem the evil tide- Roger Waters

Simms65
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Simms65
04-28-10 23:39.32 - Post#2119687    

Oh man, them's fightin' words!
David

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wstwood
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wstwood
04-29-10 05:01.26 - Post#2119898    

  • locutus Said:
[quote=wstwood
But with the belt sander available, WHY would you want to put an inferior V grind on your knife?



Because it cuts better and lasts longer????




HA!

Nice try.

Rabble rouser!

Trouble maker.

Smurf hearder.
"When all other rights have been taken away, the right of rebellion is made perfect."

Thomas Paine.

vandy12
Member

04-29-10 07:50.43 - Post#2120006    

I am pretty new at knife sharpening, obviously, but I have read in several areas where it is very difficult to put a convex bevel on the thinner knives, easier with the heavier, thicker knives. So what do you do differently with the sanding techinique when you put 30 degree angle on the blade for example vs. a convex bevel?

Thanks.
dj sharpens
Master Member KnifeNut!

dj sharpens
07-15-10 11:02.22 - Post#2171407    

I buy my belts from this place, but I buy several at a time because shipping is a bit spendy for the weight and it's the same price for one or several belts. And the belts are only $12.00 each.
https://www.econabrasives.com/produ...
ken123
Master Member KnifeNut!

ken123
07-15-10 16:47.24 - Post#2171635    

  • locutus Said:
[quote=wstwood
But with the belt sander available, WHY would you want to put an inferior V grind on your knife?



Because it cuts better and lasts longer????





Because I can MINE aren't inferior

But then again, my convex grinds aren't inferior either I use both when they are appropriate and go from very convex to very flat and inbetween.

I finally got some serious belt sanders (grinders) - both are 2 x 72", but I still like to precisely grind my edges - both flat and convex grinds. I also put a glass plate on my 1 x 30" grinder's platen too. I love flat

The best way to keep from burning the tips (or anything else) is to go at a lower speed.

Specifically for tips I never take the tip all the way across the belt. Just to be sure not to risk overheating it.

---
Ken
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palmerdl
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palmerdl
07-28-10 17:09.05 - Post#2180684    

The original post by TwinBlade convinced me to get a belt sander, 1x30 HF ( <$30). Figured there wasn't much to loose if it didn't work out. Been practicing on a couple of inexpensive machetes. Pretty good results with 120 grit belt. So, I ordered several more belts in various grits up to 1000 plus a couple of leather belts. Waiting for them to arrive. ECON abrasives https://www.econabrasives.com & http://www.trugrit.com/.
My question is, in Jeff's video I cannot tell if he has the belt touching the whole side of the blade or just a very shallow angle. I'm guessing shallow angle. Also, on the leather belt it looks like he just uses the edge of the belt to polish. Is that correct?
Also, common sense told me not to let the tip slide off the edge of the belt.
Don

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Simms65
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Simms65
07-28-10 23:45.01 - Post#2180768    

You are correct in assuming that only a small portion of the blade touches the belt.

Unless the knife is zero ground you only want to hit the bevel as you are sharpening.
David

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oronocova
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07-29-10 10:53.14 - Post#2181173    

I think you are right he just uses the edge on his. What I have noticed with my first leather belt is that it doesn't run flat. I think this is due to the round rollers on the machine adn the shorter belt length. (doesn't have as much space to flatten out before it runs over the rounded roller again. You can tell it wears in the middle more. You barely have to touch the leather at all to strop it well. I think so far I still prefer to hand strop... That may change. I got a wool polishing belt from super grit and it seems to do very well and for less than a leather belt. I really like it better but haven't tested them thoroughly yet.

The key that I have found (same exact setup as you) is to use very little pressure and very many strokes. Let the belt do all the work. I saw a post/picture on here (searched for 15 mins to thank them and couldn't find it again...) where a guy mounted his on the wall. So I screwed mine into a piece of plywood on the wall. It is sooooo much easier to sharpen with the belt running away from you up just below chest height. You can see the burr forming really well (mount a light right over it.) Then just work that burr back and forth till it gets minuscule and buff it away.

I also put a piece of bike inner tube over the top roller seems to help the belts track much better. Turn the inner tube inside-out or it will slide off.

If you didn't order any 20 or 9 micron belts you can't go wrong with them either. They take the metal away very smoothly. That's really all I use is 120grit, 20micron, 9micron, polish/strop. Sometimes I throw in a 800grit cork belt I got from supergrit. I only use the 120grit rarely if it's the first time I put a convex edge on it. Most of the time I just start with 20micron. If you are just touching up 9micron is usually where I start.

  • palmerdl Said:
The original post by TwinBlade convinced me to get a belt sander, 1x30 HF ( <$30). Figured there wasn't much to loose if it didn't work out. Been practicing on a couple of inexpensive machetes. Pretty good results with 120 grit belt. So, I ordered several more belts in various grits up to 1000 plus a couple of leather belts. Waiting for them to arrive. ECON abrasives https://www.econabrasives.com & http://www.trugrit.com/.
My question is, in Jeff's video I cannot tell if he has the belt touching the whole side of the blade or just a very shallow angle. I'm guessing shallow angle. Also, on the leather belt it looks like he just uses the edge of the belt to polish. Is that correct?
Also, common sense told me not to let the tip slide off the edge of the belt.




oronocova
Member KnifeNut!

07-29-10 11:40.09 - Post#2181201    

Here's a picture of my "sharpening station."

palmerdl
Master Member KnifeNut!

palmerdl
07-29-10 16:29.15 - Post#2181382    

Glad you posted a pic of your setup. I was having a hard time visualizing. I think I would have a harder time keeping a constant angle. Looking down from the top of the blade lets me judge the angle better, but I see your point about seeing the burr. Also looks comfortable to work that way. Maybe I'll give it a try. Not having a problem with tracking, but will keep the inner tube trick in mind. I assume your talking about a tube like a mountain bike not a road bike?
Don

Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get use to it.

oronocova
Member KnifeNut!

07-30-10 00:16.01 - Post#2181485    

Yep mountain bike. I was using it for one belt that was a little long. Klingspor's Gold I think... don't get them they are more like 31" and it won't adjust out far enough to fit. Infact I had to use the inner tube and double it up with another belt inside. I've used them all up now finally.

Yeah you ought to try it this way. I really like it, more like sharpening on a stone as far as the motion. I think it's easier to keep your angle, especially when you switch hands for the other side.
palmerdl
Master Member KnifeNut!

palmerdl
07-31-10 14:36.14 - Post#2182648    

I actually bought two HF 1x30 sanders. One to keep at my girlfriens house, where I have most of my tools. Another to keep at my apartment, because sometimes I just can't wait for the weekend to work on something. Instant gratification thing, I guess. The one at her house is just like the one in your picture, <$30. The other is the one that has the disk sander on the side, ~$75. On the cheaper one, you have to loosen the tension screw to change belts and it has plastic/hard rubber? rollers. The other on, you can change belts by pulling the tension adjuster toward you and it has metal rollers. Plus the disk sander, for twice the price. It's quite a chore to change disks. Of course I didn't notice that until I was setting it up. Runs maybe a litte smoother.
I did notice belts vary slightly in length. Not a problem , yet. Didn't buy any high price belts. Not doing any heavy duty grinding. Econo Abrasive's belts (240 & 400 grit) were $8.50/10 and work fine. Haven't recieved the finer grit and leather belt from Trugrit yet.
Don

Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get use to it.

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
08-07-10 04:54.00 - Post#2187236    

Regarding blade contact, only about 1/8" of the blade is touching. If I am removing those gawd awful beveled edges on a factory knife, I take the contact up as high as needed to knock the shoulder off and smooth and blend it to the primary grind.

BRKCA MIKE1196






locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
08-07-10 08:50.25 - Post#2187370    

  • TwinBlade Said:
Regarding blade contact, only about 1/8" of the blade is touching. If I am removing those gawd awful beveled edges on a factory knife, I take the contact up as high as needed to knock the shoulder off and smooth and blend it to the primary grind.





You can also use it with the platen to wipe off those gawd-awful convex edges!
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

knifetinkerer
Master Member KnifeNut!

knifetinkerer
08-07-10 08:58.21 - Post#2187377    

Oh yeah? Let's get out our micrometers and see how flat that belt is REALLY running over that platen.

To get my bevels really flat, I use golden faery sparkle paste on a granite reference plate, with the blade held and moved by a device resembling a CNC overarm pin router, controlled by my laptop.

Only then can you get the bevel flat enough to slice onions properly!


locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
08-07-10 09:10.38 - Post#2187384    

  • knifetinkerer Said:
Oh yeah? Let's get out our micrometers and see how flat that belt is REALLY running over that platen.

To get my bevels really flat, I use golden faery sparkle paste on a granite reference plate, with the blade held and moved by a device resembling a CNC overarm pin router, controlled by my laptop.

Only then can you get the bevel flat enough to slice onions properly!






I defer to your superior technical expertise, my friend!
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

knifetinkerer
Master Member KnifeNut!

knifetinkerer
08-07-10 11:14.13 - Post#2187451    

Darn, I was hoping you could one-up me on that one.
ken123
Master Member KnifeNut!

ken123
08-07-10 13:59.30 - Post#2187514    

I put a piece of float glass on my platen on my 1 x 30 grinder, since it worked so well on one of my 2 x 72 grinders. I need to get those chubby convex grinds thinned out to a precise flat grind - you can never get too flat or too precise

"golden faery sparkle paste " - who let my secret out! I hear the latest version of the CNC software no longer supports convex edges

Just kidding. I do convex too and a belt sander is a fine way to do them.

---
Ken
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TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
08-10-10 02:21.55 - Post#2189105    

  • locutus Said:


You can also use it with the platen to wipe off those gawd-awful convex edges!


Them's fightin' words young man!
BRKCA MIKE1196






Big Az Al
Member

08-17-10 11:57.18 - Post#2194193    

I have been staying away for a while. AND the first post when I come back is about my favorite subject.

Machine sharpening. I see there had been a video but no link showed up

There has been a Burr King in my dads and now my little gunshop, it was bought to use polishing firearms for rebluing, the shop specialty.

Just today I used the BK to retouch the edge of a Victornox butcher knife I picked up for a song.

From the metal polishing I do, I go from the BK to a sisal wheel (you would think you ruined the edge from this) then a soft cotton wheel with green compound, this brings the edge to it's best sharp

I use LEE compound (my best source is brownells) on a hard glued cloth wheel to work sarrated blades, the edge will work the rounds with a careful touch, I have made some really worn out steak knifes almost scary sharp.

AL
clevinski
Member

12-12-10 10:04.41 - Post#2251260    

First, many thanks to TwinBlade for creating the belt sander video. I finally broke down and bought an HF belt sander and ordered some grinding and leather belts from Lee Valley. (Of course, I made a stupid mistake and ordered the wrong length grinding belts. Hope they'll take them back; I'll phone them tomorrow.) But I have two questions about the leather belts.

1. Which side should I use? The documentation with the belt says to use the coarser side except for the finest compound, so I applied black compound (Bark River) to the coarse side on one belt, and green compound to the smooth side on the other. Is that right?

2. How MUCH compound do you use? I noticed in the video that I could barely see any black on the first leather belt.

Thanks for your help. I'm anxious to get the correct grinding belts now and give it a try!

Charlie

Ian Moone
Member KnifeNut!

12-12-10 16:51.48 - Post#2251534    

I have a question if I may please.

I claim to be an old school knife sharpener - whet stones andlubricant to float off the metal particles and a steady hand.

That saidI also worked hard wood in a commercial shop for 20+ yers and that involves sharpening all the tools in the factory from hand chisels to hand saws and then send the tungsten blades to the saw doctor fora machine grind.

My preference for chisels wasa wet grind stone (water bath type) because the angle can be controlled by the rest stop setting and heat never builds upto draw the temper in the steel at the cutting edge.

Also the material removal rate is more controllable for tha ground edge look.

Now you might presume from all that I'm against belt sanding but you'd be wrong.

In the timber factory we had a few belt sanders - my "favourite" for coarse sharpening (my expoxy glus mixing knife for example or the axe for the farm woodheap), was our door sandr with 30 odd foot long belts - they were great on the big stuff like axes.

Now one thing I did learn with belt sander sharpening like you demonstrate, istha it always seemed otproduce a better edge with less burr to remove next belt when the cutting edge faced into the oncomming grits of the belt not railing away as you demonstrated.

In effect it's like trying to clice a shave of cheese off a block of cheesewith a knife - you can see the cutting edge rather than it being hideen behind(or downward in your example) where you have to guess the intersection angle beween knife and belt.

So hav you ever tried sharpening that edge by facing the cutting dge upwards towards your eyes and then tilt it inwards to the belt until th eleading edge us touches?

This way the belt removes the burr every time, rather than having to grind it off fromth eother side and eave yet another burr etc

You can half that sharpening time - trust me!

Maybe give it a go if you haven't already and let me know how it works out, I just about guarantee you'll swap from traili edge sharpening to leading edge sharpening aftr all whetstone grinding works on leading edge grinding not trailing edge.

Just a tip - hope it helps out - otherwise I enjoyed your U tube vid heaps and yes when belt sanding i keep cold water nearbye and dip often (every grind) to keep the metal cool and try to preserve temper!

I'm still a big fan of power whetstone grinding, all the same and would kill for another Arkansas whet stone, just to final hone the edge by hand to keep up with the skills.

Cheers
tacosauce
Member KnifeNut!

01-03-11 17:48.36 - Post#2264530    

Thanks for shooting and posting your video! It's a great help to a klutz with a stone. I'm looking at getting a belt sander myself to get and keep that scary sharp edge on my tools.
Gibbs
Member

Gibbs
02-03-11 12:47.31 - Post#2284996    

I recently bought a HF belt sander and have had pretty good success with it. I got the belts and leather strop belt from www.theedgemasters.com His/their prices include shipping.


Gibbs
Member

Gibbs
02-04-11 11:27.18 - Post#2285734    

I must say that Jeff's youtube video is one of the first ones I had seen and saved to my computer. It gave me confidence to purchse the Harbor Freight 1" x 30" sander. I thought TwinBlades did an EXCELENT job on the video. Good clean camera shots, clear voice, and good explanations.
************************* ****
Vern
http://taurus45acp.com my personal website with links. Nothing for sale.
joaxe
Member

joaxe
02-18-11 05:52.49 - Post#2294795    

I just got into sharpening this way and recently sharpened an old "survival" knife using the included 80-grit belt, a SharpMaker and a leather strop. That blade came out scary sharp!

Since then, I've bought the recommended belts (except the 1200 grit), leather SurgiSharp belt and the 525 and HF compounds.

Question - what is the best way to apply the compound to the leather belt? I am only experienced with Herb's Yellowstone and shaving that onto a leather hand strop.

Thanks in advance!

Joe
DocCP
Member

DocCP
02-18-11 22:54.15 - Post#2295338    

I usually heat both belt and compund carefully with either a heat-gun or a propane gas source of some kind. Usually the same as iI use fpr waxing skis. You could probably also inherit from your spouse an old iron (for ironing). Some source of heat is useful. Dont apply too much at one time. I use the "coarse" side of the belt but I know that others prefer the even side for the compound.
Good luck experimenting. You cant go wrong. This is great fun and relatively easy.
Matt NEOhio
Member

Matt NEOhio
02-23-11 02:35.13 - Post#2298471    

If anyone has $350 to burn, here is a "Cadillac" belt sander! Cast iron construction and cast iron table! Nice sander.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...


joaxe
Member

joaxe
02-23-11 06:47.57 - Post#2298686    

Thanks, DocCP. That's what I needed to know.

Joe

Bigred613
Member

02-27-11 14:49.53 - Post#2302443    

This may be a real dumb question. But would you try a sander like this on a serated edge?
Gibbs
Member

Gibbs
02-27-11 16:02.04 - Post#2302492    

I have, on a long serated kitchen knife of or Solingen German origin, a Trident I believe. I put on the 800 grit and then the 1000 and finished with the leather belt. I kept the non-serrated side against the belt very flat, maybe a 3 deg angle. That seemed to put a bit of help in the sharpness of the serrations.
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
02-28-11 02:21.38 - Post#2302721    

I've done the same with very high grit/small micron belts. It is certainly better than ignoring the serrations.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
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At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

RemMan
Member

03-18-11 09:30.36 - Post#2314839    

I have been using a belt sander for a while to sharpen knives using similar technique. I am glad to see my method validated as I was never sure it was the way to go but it did get my knives scary sharp.

I got my 1x42 belt sander from golfsmith to work on golf clubs. They do not sell the model I have any more, but i checked today and they have a similar model for sale now. It is similar to the baldor type and seems to be of pretty high quality. The new onw has some attachments specific to clubmaking, but they can be removed. They also have a variety of belts fairly cheap. If anyone is into golf club making and knives like I am, it is worth checking out.

I have been getting my belts from Jantz supply. (www.knifemaking.com) They are a knife making outfit I got a catalog several years ago. They have a wide variety of belts and seem to be one of the more inexpensive sources I have found. Their shipping is reasonable to. Sadly they no longer carry leather belts so it is good to find another source for them.

sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
04-02-11 23:20.14 - Post#2321688    

this is a hellofa good vid that i watch from time to time and learn from it each time. BUT I GOT A BIG QUESTION. no matter if its on my converted grizzly, my little HF, or my kalamazoo, my leather belts bounce around like a raped ape. this guys leather belt runs as smooth as his trizacs do. i have spent a small fortune on leather belts to strop with, but no matter if i run em smooth side out/in, slow/fast, 3 diff. machines, they are all over the place. i'm about to give up on leather stropping belts and just go all the way up to 4000 grit in place of a belt. how does he get his stropping belt to run so smooth??????????
mrp
Journeyman KnifeNut!

04-05-11 06:25.50 - Post#2322638    

Dunno about how you handle your stropping belts, but here's what i've learned:

Leather stretches

Leather belts pressed by wheels under strong spring tension stretch a lot.

Stretched leather belts flop like fish in a boat.

My solution was to buy a belt sander that includes a locking bolt/tracking knob combination that allows me to install the belt with just enough tension for movement (I believe the Kalamazoo has the one, too). Low tension is best for a leather belt. A 3-wheel belt sander is even better
sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
04-05-11 08:20.41 - Post#2322695    

does it with every leather belt. new, medium used, old. will try to loosen the tension and see what happens. my other thought is that the center of the wheels, being domed and not flat across the belt-to-wheel surface may be the problem or part of it. gonna look into getting replacement wheels and making them flat and seeing if the belts will sit flatter on the wheels.
mrp
Journeyman KnifeNut!

04-05-11 08:25.11 - Post#2322698    

Ouch. My SurgiSharp belt tracks superbly on my converted Delta SA180. Do you have the same problem with your abrasive belts?
sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
04-05-11 10:15.52 - Post#2322761    

not at all. only the leather gives me trouble. i have diff tried diff brands, sizes. same thing, just worse on some than others.
mrp
Journeyman KnifeNut!

04-05-11 11:28.13 - Post#2322790    

Ok. The following applies only to my experience with a three-wheel, converted Delta SA180 1x42 machine, which should be nearly identical to a converted (multi-pulley) Grizzly H8192 belt sander:

The leather belt requires a different track adjustment from the abrasive belts. Each abrasive belt - from the 80grit Klingspor to the A3 Trizact - use the same tracking adjustment, which makes changing belts pretty easy. I lock down the tracking knob (using the 8mm allen wrench) after installing each belt.

Installing the leather belt involves a major adjustment - 1) I wind the belt around the wheels while holding down the tracking knob with one hand. 2) After the leather belt is in place, I allow the spring-loaded tracking knob to rise until there is just enough tension on the belt for it to rotate under power. 3) I lock the tracking knob in that position by tightening the tracking knob bolt with the 9mm allen wrench. 4) I turn the track knob four (4) complete revolutions. 5) I turn on the machine to fine-adjust the tracking.

Those four turns are a big change from the abrasive belt settings, which is why, when i begin to sharpen for money, I will buy a two-wheel belt grinder to sharpen with the abrasive belts and de-burr/polish with the leather belt/Delta SA180 combination.
sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
04-05-11 14:27.56 - Post#2322858    

sounds like you got it made, except for the hassle of going from one machine to another, which won't be a big deal if they are in a fixed mounted location.
i just went to my 2 wheel machine, the kalamazoo (i feel silly every time i type that)and tried about 5 diff. tensions and the leather tracks best on the tightest one. on the looser tensions the leather belt bounces back and forth so bad (front to back) i can easily feel it bouncing off and on again on my finger nail. other leather belts bounce left and right and back and forth.
on your delta, are the wheels flat across?? left to right? on my kala, the top (idle) wheel is metal and flat, but the bottom(drive wheel) is plastic and rounded/uneven etc etc. gotta be a common theme to this problem.
mrp
Journeyman KnifeNut!

04-05-11 15:26.14 - Post#2322882    

On the Delta, all three wheels are flat across. You might have a defective lower wheel or axle. It's my experience that the heavier leather belt will shift more quickly than the lighter cloth-backed abrasive belts.

OTHOH, you said that you were having the same problem with all three grinders. If you haven't already, give Kalamazoo and/or Grizzly a call. I bet they can help.

I like the idea of two machines. Going from one machine to the other is faster, because I don't have to waste time re-adjusting the belt grinder for the leather belt. And if one breaks down, I can use the other one as backup.
Wizcam
Member KnifeNut!

04-08-11 08:57.01 - Post#2324006    

Thanks for the Video Jeff.
I just Ordered the Grizzly 1x30 and I noticed it is shown with a metal piece behind the belt, where you would be holding the knife. from what I've seen it looks like it should be removed, am I correct in this assumption?

Stan
Rob Babcock
Master Member KnifeNut!

Rob Babcock
04-08-11 17:27.05 - Post#2324179    

That's called the platen. You use that if you want to precisely control the angle as you would when doing a V grind. It's also good for stock removal. You shouldn't remove the platen unless all you're going to do is convex sharpening and repairs.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-07-11 08:06.32 - Post#2335362    

Dumb question for you fellows that know how to use a belt: Can you sharpen scissors on one without a special jig?
Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

05-07-11 13:57.51 - Post#2335452    

Yes and no, the exact answer you didn't want to hear. You can "freehand" a pair os scissors IF you use a magic marker (black) and use only enough pressure to remove the black on the blade. That's no assurance that the angle will be exact on both sides but it may be cloae enough for your client.

You can use an arm and clamp on a 1x42. PM me if this appeals to you. It's expensive but precise.
jendeindustries
Master Member KnifeNut!

jendeindustries
05-07-11 13:59.02 - Post#2335454    

Short and sweet: yes

Doug Rising is the master of that around these parts.


The only issue may be the ride line, which you can use a platen for, or switch out to a stone for that final touching up.
Tom Blodgett

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Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-07-11 14:28.48 - Post#2335464    

Thanks, guys! I'll drop Doug a PM. It just seems like as long as I'm convex sharpening, scissors would be a natural thing to put the belt to!
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-11-11 02:21.51 - Post#2336651    

So, the Trizacts are the best belts for sharpening?

As it stands, I'm looking at getting the Trizacts in 80, 45, 30, 16 and 6 micron from Lee Valley, then two SurgiSharps from Trugrit to be used with Bark River black and green compounds, respectively.

Is that a suitable set, and is there a better place to get them? Lee Valley seems really pricy on the Trizacts, TruGrit has them for half the price, but only down to 400 grit. Any suggestions here would be good, I've got a week or so until I'll be ordering, so I'm trying to get my shopping list completed.
sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
05-11-11 05:21.01 - Post#2336721    

again, talk to doug. he's got the belts too. and can't beat his service.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-11-11 05:47.27 - Post#2336730    

Hey, makes that nice and simple! Dropped you another message, Doug!

Thanks, Sarge. This is a darn nice tool, I just had it show up yesterday.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-19-11 03:28.24 - Post#2339629    

Well, with Doug's direction, I've got some belts on order! Now I'm gonna sit down and watch the videos about a million times and loot the local second-hand stores for old kitchen knives while I wait for them to show up.
Oldmedic
Member

05-20-11 03:57.09 - Post#2340037    

I only have praises for the belt sander sharpening system, I had a friend give me an old HF sander,,got me some belts from Lee Valley,,I was able to sharpen the first knife I tried on it,,I was very impressed with it,,I have a decent set of oilstones and a EP with the chosera waterstones, but for speed and actuall sharpness I still cannot beat the belt sander,,yeah I know the EP guys are gonna rake me over for that, lol,,but in all honesty I have only had the EP for a weeks or so,,still learning it,,am sure it will do a better job once I learn it,,just my thoughts,,have a great day
Rob Babcock
Master Member KnifeNut!

Rob Babcock
05-20-11 05:24.27 - Post#2340074    

I prefer stones for higher end knives but there's no doubt the belts will get a screaming sharp edge in a fraction of the time.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-20-11 15:34.12 - Post#2340264    

Jeeze, it's SO stinking easy! I wouldn't have believed it. I only have the 120 grit belt I had laying around my garage, it's kinda dead so probably closer to a 220 or so now. I used the 80-grit that it came with to raise a quick burr on a crappy old kitchen knife we have in the garage for garden stuff, swapped to the 120 and fined it down a little, then just went to my leather bench strop charged with black buffing compound and worked it until the wire came off. That sucker would ALREADY shave! I can't wait for my real belt assortment to show up.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-31-11 12:33.26 - Post#2344012    

For my first real work-out with the Kali and the full assortment of belts I ordered, I took the belt to a 4" paring knife that the family has been using to dig weeds out of the yard for about six years. This thing is about as dull as you can possibly get a blade. 120, 320, 400, 15u, 9u, then green and white on leather. Total time elapsed, perhaps six minutes including belt changes, and this is darn near as sharp as a knife feels right off of my EP.
sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
05-31-11 14:10.27 - Post#2344050    

just think......another minute and it woulda BEAT the EP!
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
05-31-11 15:13.09 - Post#2344074    

Well, I'm STILL not sure if I like a convex edge as much as I like a beautifully-polished V-bevel, but I sure know where all my friend's knives are going now! I've now done that first paring knife, a big carving knife that was in almost as bad of shape, a cheap butcher's knife, and my personal Case XX roast-carving knife. It's just dang near impossible to hose this up, I don't see how you COULD fail to end up less than shaving-sharp. I wish I would have known about this years ago.

Also dressed my NSC a bit on the green and then white compound on the belts, and put that original razor edge back on it. I'd lost a bit slicing through a couple inches of steel-belted radial.
sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
05-31-11 15:21.10 - Post#2344078    

I'd lost a bit slicing through a couple inches of steel-belted radial.

you out messing with the neighbors cars again? save it for when the new obama bumper stickers start showing up! it'll make them libs nervous as a ho in church.
Michiel Vanhoudt
Master Member KnifeNut!

Michiel Vanhoudt
05-31-11 17:47.51 - Post#2344107    

A nicely polished convex edge is fantastic. Different than V, but most of the time I still do convex edges. On the belt sander, free hand or EP. All the same to me.

Michiel


MIKE #506

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Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-01-11 02:03.05 - Post#2344170    

Nah, Sarge, that's a job for about five gallons of diesel oil and a zippo, and even that might not do the job. Sucker's been sitting in the road leaking oil on flat tires for two years, they'd probably just leave the burned-out hulk there too.

I'm still trying to get used to the convex, it just doesn't FEEL sharp. It *cuts* like it's sharp, and it'll take hair off your arm without any pressure at all, but when you rub your thumb across it, it just doesn't grab like a V-bevel does. It's the shape, I know, but still! I'm just really glad to have run across this method of sharpening, it's certainly THE way to go if you want to sharpen more than one knife at a time!

With as sharp as they're getting now, I can't IMAGINE what'd happen if you ran the blade through a Trizact series instead of cheap AO belts before the leather. I'm going to keep going like this until I wear out my four sets of belts, I think, then probably order up some Trizacts. I'm going camping this weekend (sorta, friends are bringing their RV, so it's hardly camping. More like parking with style.) and I think I'm going to take the Kali along.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-08-11 03:43.32 - Post#2346902    

So, was bored earlier today and was goofing around in Excel.

Here's a quick-and-dirty spreadsheet comparing shaft RPM and drive pulley size in inches, with the resultant belt speed in feet per minute. I think I covered most ranges, but the sheet is expandable to any size required.

It probably says something about me that when I'm bored, my first recourse is math in Excel... Meh!


locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
06-08-11 11:57.29 - Post#2347077    

Verrry Interestingggg.

Thank you, Dr. Wonmug!
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-10-11 03:14.38 - Post#2347705    

Hey, because any time you can involve Excel in a problem, it's a good day.

So, how about a tad more detailed version:



EDIT: Huh, that got a little squished by the upload. The attachment version is fine, though. Gotta love the forum software.
Michiel Vanhoudt
Master Member KnifeNut!

Michiel Vanhoudt
06-10-11 04:05.01 - Post#2347725    

NUTS!



just kidding! Great work.
Michiel


MIKE #506

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Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-10-11 05:59.31 - Post#2347741    

Personally, I'd concur with the former assessment. It takes a certain kind of insanity to look at something and go "Oh, look, I can use a spreadsheet!" Call it a bad habit I picked up from my engineering buddies at the university.

If you can think of other stuff that'd be handy to analyse in bulk like that, I'd be happy to mess around with it. That just seemed like a particularly obvious way to save people a lot of math by hand. Feel free to pass it around!
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
06-13-11 02:31.38 - Post#2348755    

Since you like spreadsheets so much you could make an updated version of grit comparisons between the different measuring systems and compared to microns. The one that's floating around is pretty good, but a few years old and not super inclusive.

David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-13-11 03:57.20 - Post#2348796    

Heck, why not? Looks like there's plenty of information around, just a matter of piling it all up in one spot. I'll see what I can crank out.
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
06-14-11 00:35.35 - Post#2349164    

Excellent!
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

06-14-11 07:33.23 - Post#2349358    

AHEM!...So where's the Trizact stats?
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-14-11 07:56.11 - Post#2349377    

So read the thread I've got my grit chart going in! The Trizact grading system is included in the new revision that I'll be posting later this evening once I get the WEPS plate data.

The Trizacts are the first grits I have not been able to DIRECTLY relate to micron sizes, but they're listed as relative to the FEPA-P scale, so I can link them in.
FoxholeAtheist
Master Member KnifeNut!

06-18-11 06:01.19 - Post#2350991    

I like belt sander sharpening, and I like normal sharpening. I like grit charts, and I like pulley speed comparison charts... but please, only YOU can stop Excel abuse.

Few people realize this, but spreadsheets begin life desiring only to calculate financial information. They jump out of the gate ready to amortize, chart, graph... and end up overused as lists or (the terror that keeps young spreadsheets awake at night) as half-assed databases.

But you can help.

Every time you open Excel (or any of the other poor, abused spreadsheets of the world) ask yourself "Is what I'm about to go in any way a financial calculation?" If the answer is no, you can make a difference in the life of your spreadsheet. Put the mouse down... reconsider. How about Visio for that flowchart? How about Access for that customer list? You could help that spreadsheet's dreams come to life, and fight off its nightmares!


locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
06-18-11 06:29.29 - Post#2350997    

DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

rlucius
Journeyman KnifeNut!

06-22-11 16:19.33 - Post#2352644    

Thought you and others may be interested in the article by Mr. Jon Siegel and especially the illustration of the sharpening shop from the Diderot Encyclopedia. PLEASE NOTE THE PIPES FROM THE WATER TROUGHS TO COOL AND OR LUBRICATE THE BEARING AREAS.

The sharpening machines that Jon modified - from the base up were from Harbor Freight. He did a complete dis assembly and replaced parts, all plastic rollers were replaced with metal rollers of his manufacture.

His interest is directed toward the wood worker - Jon has a wealth of knowledge and experience to share.

Rupert
Here in Louisiana


Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-22-11 16:30.33 - Post#2352649    

Bah, the spreadsheet is my toy, to be used at my discretion. The horrors of my VBA coding and half-assed formulary design are used by momma spreadsheets to scare their little kiddy spreadsheets into behaving at night!
sergeant69
Journeyman KnifeNut!

sergeant69
06-22-11 23:20.00 - Post#2352696    

you lost me after "bah". i'm numbers retarded.
rlucius
Journeyman KnifeNut!

06-24-11 00:08.48 - Post#2353211    

http://www.bigtreetools.com/article...

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch...

Woodworkers like the wider belt for doing plane irons and etc

Excuse me this should have been with the earlier post

Thanks for understanding
rlucius
Journeyman KnifeNut!

06-24-11 00:25.36 - Post#2353218    



The Harbor Freight 4 x 36 belt sander "out of the box" has a belt speed of 1150 FPM, slower than most belt sanders before modifications.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-24-11 02:39.10 - Post#2353266    

Well, I've used a 4x36 for flattening the bevel on a damaged chisel back before I got my Kali... I suppose it'd work? You'd have to modify it a bit if you wanted any slack to sharpen in, though.
rlucius
Journeyman KnifeNut!

06-25-11 12:50.42 - Post#2353818    



Jon, does extensive modifications to the the HF 4 x 36.

I, am not a woodworker - the woodworkers who I watch sharpen woodworking tools, sharpen without any convex or concave edge.

The above eliminates round grinding wheels of small diameter and slack belts.

Rupert


Moneybullets
Member

07-03-11 06:01.57 - Post#2356554    

Hi Twinblade,
I am just teaching myself belt sander sharpening and your video was informative. I am doing ok but having some problems with the points. I seem to be steady everywhere else, but some points seem to be off. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!- Ernie Bullard(moneybullets)
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
07-05-11 01:19.16 - Post#2357056    

Twinblade has taken leave of KF.

As far as getting points, what are the problems you are having? Are you rounding them off? If so, you are not maintaining the correct blade to belt angle. You need to maintain the sweep across the edge of the blade (or start at the tip and not the heel) while making sure that you don't allow the tip to dive into the belt or go more than about halfway across it.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Moneybullets
Member

07-06-11 08:04.32 - Post#2357594    

Thanks David,
That was exactly what I was doing. I was letting the point slip at the end. Your advice about starting tip first was good for me. I appreciate the feedback.
Best Regards,
Ernie
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
07-07-11 01:26.37 - Post#2357826    

I'm glad it was helpful.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

ammiraglio
Member

ammiraglio
08-04-11 02:45.35 - Post#2370098    

Hi everyone!
Inspired by this topic, I've just got a Valex LND127 sander and now I'm looking for belts. Unfortunately, in Italy (and Europe also) I've a lot of difficulties to find belts, even if Klingspor is based in Germany, where I purchase a lot of electrical equipment.

Does anyone know a shop in Europe like leevalley/trugrit/econabr asives?

Another question: does anyone have tried those belts?

https://www.econabrasives.com/produ...

This topic is wonderful! I'll post one dedicated to italians who want to follow the sander 1x30 philosophy when i will collect all needed tools.

FYI my sander cost 69 euro.

CIAOOO!!!!
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-04-11 02:57.50 - Post#2370106    

Hmm, unfortunately I'm not familiar with vendors in Europe as a whole. Welcome to Knife Forums and Keeping Sharp, by the way!

We had a discussion just a while back on those ultra-fine belts, let me see if I can dig it up...

EDIT: Here's the thread on that discussion.

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/s...


KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-16-11 01:50.33 - Post#2376575    

I have used stones for years and also a Lansky system. I can get really nice edges but as others have mentioned, it takes a very long time.

I would like to switch to belt sharpening but I have a question. I know that with traditional stones it is imperative to maintain a consistent angle. However, it appears in the original video of the thread that he is just "eye balling" it. How important is it to try to keep perfect angles, especially after having to make belt changes? Thanks for the info.
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
08-16-11 02:25.43 - Post#2376596    

With practice you can very easily maintain as good an angle as with stones freehand. You just have to put steel to belt a bit to figure out how best to do it.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-16-11 02:51.04 - Post#2376606    

I personally find it easier on the belt than on a stone, probably because I can see the alignment of the spine and the belt so clearly. The convex edge is also more forgiving of angle wobbles than a V-bevel.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-16-11 04:01.27 - Post#2376631    

I already use a 2x72 for grinding the knives I make so I have some experience with it. Sharpening on the smaller 1x30 belt sander will probably just take some practice.
rlucius
Journeyman KnifeNut!

08-16-11 04:49.17 - Post#2376656    



Consider the 1x42 inch belt "format" unless you already have 1x30 belts and or machine.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-16-11 06:07.57 - Post#2376690    

I definitely second the suggestion for the 1x42 if you're buying new. Your 2x72 is MORE than capable of sharpening, though! If you have that already, I'd highly suggest just selecting some suitable belts for it and using that.

Welcome to Knifeforums, by the way!
KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-16-11 08:01.53 - Post#2376744    

My 2x72 would work just fine on larger blades but maybe not as well for small blades. I see that Trizact offers 2x72 belts. I bet I could always split them and run 1x72. I may give that a try and see how it goes.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm a frequent reader on the forum but my questions are generally asked and answered by others before I have to ask.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-16-11 08:14.46 - Post#2376754    

Well, I've sharpened blades down to pen-knife size on my 1x42 with no problem at all, you just use part of the belt, not all of it. Since I'm a leftie, I most commonly sharpen with the left side of the belt first, something I'm trying to overcome because it leaves a slight tendency to leave the left bevel larger than the right.

Also, talk to Doug Rising here on the forum, there's a good chance he can get you the belts that you need, his Trizacts are what I run. He's also about the best belt-sharpener I can think of off the top of my head, although we have several good ones around here.

I'd probably end up asking less questions if I could get the search tool around here to work right, it frequently has issues when I try to use it.
locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
08-16-11 11:44.21 - Post#2376864    

Question for youse belt gize!

Is there any reason he can't use a 1X 42 belt on a 2X 42 sander???
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-16-11 11:48.50 - Post#2376866    

If you can adjust the belt tension, I don't see why not. However, using a 1x42 belt on a 2x72 grinder could be a BIT more of a challenge.
locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
08-16-11 11:53.28 - Post#2376869    

  • Komitadjie Said:
If you can adjust the belt tension, I don't see why not. However, using a 1x42 belt on a 2x72 grinder could be a BIT more of a challenge.




Perhaps, but if he has a lot of small knives to sharpen, I'd sure try the 1X42 belt before buying a new sander.

(OH my Gawd, the Scottish heritage is coming out again! )
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-16-11 12:29.11 - Post#2376900    

Maybe he can skip a whole pulley?
KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-17-11 01:58.42 - Post#2377146    

I appreciate all of the suggestions.

1) There is no way my current grinder (2x72) will accept 42 inch belts.

2) I went ahead and ordered some Trizact belts. If I see that the 2" is too wide I will split them into 1 inch.

3) This way I have avoided buying a new grinder and will be able to use a grinder that I am familiar with and comfortable using.

I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Keith
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-17-11 02:18.03 - Post#2377154    

Nobody was ACTUALLY serious about trying to fit a half-size belt onto your grinder, Keith. That'd probably take a bit more crowbar than we're comfortable with using on fine machinery.

Another thread that might really benefit you to read through is Jerry Hossom's thread on belt sharpening. I don't agree with all of his conclusions, but he has a lot of extremely good information. He uses a 2x72 Bader BIII for his sharpening.

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/s...

Good luck!
KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-17-11 02:53.26 - Post#2377167    

I see the emotes now. They didn't show up on my phone. LOL

I'll give the other thread a read.

One thing I will need to do is make a couple 72 inch leather belts. That shouldn't be an issue. I have the leather. I just need to find the time to do it. My "hobby" is dangerously close to becoming a second job.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-17-11 03:22.43 - Post#2377176    

Know how that goes! As I recall, Jerry didn't have a lot of luck with the commercially-available leather belts for the 2x72, his flopped a lot. I think he ended up with linen, if I'm remembering right.
locutus
Master Member KnifeNut!

locutus
08-17-11 03:25.44 - Post#2377178    

  • KAH13 Said:
I see the emotes now. They didn't show up on my phone. LOL

I'll give the other thread a read.

One thing I will need to do is make a couple 72 inch leather belts. That shouldn't be an issue. I have the leather. I just need to find the time to do it. My "hobby" is dangerously close to becoming a second job.




Oh my Gawd! I was only half awake when I read your first post!

I though you had a 2X42 sander not a 2X72. that's why I posted asboput the 1X42 belt.

Next time I'll make sure I've had my second cut of tea before posting!
DARK LORD OF THE SWARF

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-17-11 03:29.03 - Post#2377179    

I thought you might'a missed that one, Locutus, hence my ribbing about it being a tad tough to fit. I REALLY need my grin emote back, by the way.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-18-11 05:26.28 - Post#2377571    

Keith-Fucious say- "Knife guy with no hair on arm know how to sharpen."
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-18-11 06:59.44 - Post#2377590    

With the possible corollary "Knife guy with bloody gouge on arm has better sharpening skills than shaving skills."
KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-18-11 07:12.51 - Post#2377592    

Very True.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-18-11 07:42.32 - Post#2377596    

Which belts do you usually use when you're making knives? I've just started playing with the Norton Blaze belts here recently, I'm impressed so far.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
08-18-11 08:10.11 - Post#2377603    

I use 80 grit Norton Blaze for my profiling and rough grinds. Then I move up to 120 grit Blaze. After that I use Aluminum Zirconia belts in 220, 400, & 600. I couldn't tell you the brand name. My brother gets them for me in bulk. I hand sand everything after that up to 2000 grit depending on the metal and the finish I want.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
08-18-11 08:54.21 - Post#2377617    

Sounds about the same as my hard-use set, actually. I've recently been using 60, 80 and 120 grit Blaze belts as my go-to for serious work, regrinding tips, thinning hugely over-thickness bevels and the like. Used the 120 the other day, actually, on a Buck folder that had been sharpened back until the bevel was probably 70 degrees inclusive. Took just a couple passes to have a burr back up and the bevel back down to something reasonable. They seem to break in a fair bit on the first couple passes, then sort of stay that way for a long time.

After the Blaze belts, I switch over to Trizacts down through the A3, then to leather with compound for that final polish.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
09-02-11 04:55.43 - Post#2382603    

My belts came in today. I hope to give them a try over the weekend.
ammiraglio
Member

ammiraglio
09-17-11 00:27.20 - Post#2387588    

Hi people! Finally, I've received from EconAbrasives the complete set of belts and compounds needed.

FYI I'm in Italy, and here there's nothing other than 80 and 120 grit for 1x30 sander. The american Belt sander (made in china off course!) in Italy is distributed as VALEX LND127: this info might be helpful for italian readers. I've modded the sander with hand made flat pulleys as needed and ordered from Greg (very nice guy!) at Econ all kind of belts they have to compensate the shipping costs.

Yesterday, with perfect punctuality, I've received the box and started first experiments with a bunch of old kitchen knives... after a couple of hours practicing, I've reached a quite good result!! off course I'm just a beginner, but my arm is shaved!!

I would like to show you one of my passions, the restore of old or ancient tools. This one, called Roncola, is made in forged steel, is 97 years old, made from a factory (Rubino Netro) that now is a museum in North Italy. I've done a very light but effective sharpening on it: light because I'm used to preserve the more original metal as possible, effective because now is "spooky scary sharp"!!



Unfortunately I've made a mistake, and I've contamined one of my leather belts with two different compounds: is there a way to clean it?

Ciao TwinBlade!
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
09-17-11 03:02.52 - Post#2387643    

Cool, looks like a brush hook of some kind. Bet that'd make REALLY short work of clearing weeds!

Congrats on getting started with the belts, by the way. It's a heck of a lot of fun, isn't it? Personally, I'd just ignore the contamination unless it's REALLY severe, as long as the edge is still coming off decent. If you really want to get it off, I'd guess that drywall sanding screen like you usually use to refresh a belt when it gets too much compound on it would do the trick. Doug Rising here on the forums will be able to answer that question for sure.
Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

09-17-11 10:09.48 - Post#2387775    

Hi! And a big KF welcome. I love our international mix.

Kom is right. Unless you have saturated your belt w/ one grit and then tried to change the grit--especialy if the variation in grits is large--removing the residual w/ drywall metal screen should be sufficient to restore the belt to near factory condition. If you start to get leather particles in the screen, you're finished.

Best to remember in the future to keep one belt for one grit. Mark the inside of the belt w/ a permanent black marker to keep you straight.

Regards and good luck. Sounds like you are off to a great start!

Doug
KAH13
Member

KAH13
09-20-11 05:24.06 - Post#2388715    

I have my belts and have been playing around trying to sharpen everything in the house. I'm getting ok results but I am not happy with inconsistent angles. I know you guys said that it's a feel thing and not necessary to get perfect angles. Any suggestions?
Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
09-22-11 01:59.14 - Post#2389384    

If your angles are inconsistent you need to train yourself to be consistent. Try making faux passes with a knife while the sander is turned off and concentrate on making sure the angle stays the same. Coloring your edge with a sharpie and checking your angle every pass will help as well.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

KAH13
Member

KAH13
09-22-11 02:11.28 - Post#2389388    

I guess I have 2 things giving me grief. 1) Inexperience 2) When making knives I do all of my grinding edge up (leading) in regards to belt direction. When sharpening, I am doing the opposite and my eyes and hands aren't adjusting very well.

I did manage a little better last night for some new knives.

Practice is probably all I need.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
09-22-11 02:44.23 - Post#2389405    

Yup, practice practice practice. The angle is pretty easy to hold once you get the feel of it.
Lou Castle
Member

09-29-11 09:30.43 - Post#2392195    

Is it possible to remove compound from the leather belt and apply a different one? Or must I buy another leather belt?

Thanks, Lou
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
09-29-11 09:32.53 - Post#2392197    

Lou, take a look back about five posts before yours, Doug just gave a good, concise answer on that one.
Lou Castle
Member

09-29-11 10:31.24 - Post#2392223    

It figures Komitadjie. I read almost all the posts in this thread at one sitting and then my brain got fried and I gave up trying to find the info. If I'd read JUST ONE more page, I'da found it.

Thanks, Lou

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
09-29-11 17:45.40 - Post#2392420    

Ain't that ALWAYS the way it goes? Incidentally, best price I've found on belts is at EconAbrasives, they have the SurgiSharp ones for $12.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
09-30-11 01:25.44 - Post#2392565    

Ok, what is the best way to remove the burr? It isn't coming off on any of the 10 knives I did last night even up to 4500 grit.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
09-30-11 01:55.45 - Post#2392595    

My choice is the leather belt loaded with green compound. After I'm done with the A3 belt, it's usually still there as just the wispiest little feather of metal. You can actually watch if disappear with a pass across the leather if you have good lighting.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
09-30-11 02:12.41 - Post#2392612    

That's the problem. Since I am using my 2X72 grinder I had to make my leather belts. The leather I had on hand is too stiff and broke at the seam. I had to rely on stropping against an old leather paddle strop and that isn't removing it as well.

I'll do a search and see if I can find someone who makes a belt to fit my machine.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
09-30-11 04:11.49 - Post#2392635    

What about using a Felt Belt? Have you ever tried one of those instead of leather? It seems like it would serve a similar purpose.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
09-30-11 06:55.54 - Post#2392725    

I haven't used the felt ones myself, but something that might be very much worth your time would be to drop a PM to Jerry Hossom. He has a very useful thread on belt sharpening also, HERE. He's tried several things with his 2x72, I'm not sure what he's using now, but it's sure to be good.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
10-01-11 01:56.16 - Post#2393254    

I found a post in that thread where Mr. Hossom recommends a felt belt loaded with white compound as a substitute for a leather belt. I'm going to order one and give it a try. It should track better and not bounce as much as my leather options. Thanks.

Keith
KAH13
Member

KAH13
10-12-11 07:53.54 - Post#2397826    

I got my felt belt in. It works like a charm. It really takes the last bit of burr off the blade and puts that final polish on the edge.

Now where did I put that box of bandaids?
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
10-12-11 16:25.18 - Post#2398061    

Excellent! Glad to see that you found something to work, I haven't actually heard of a leather belt worth a darn for the 2x72. At least not yet.
Mr. Wizard
Journeyman KnifeNut!

10-12-11 18:01.58 - Post#2398074    

What kind of felt belt did you get? There are a number of them on the market.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
10-13-11 01:06.15 - Post#2398122    

Mine is a 2X72 that I ordered through Jantz. $19.95. It doesn't list a brand name.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
10-13-11 03:58.22 - Post#2398167    

I'm tempted to try a felt or cork belt too, just kind of for the heck of it.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
10-27-11 07:53.20 - Post#2403788    

Here's a knife I just finished a customer. It took a really nice edge. I used Alabama Damascus for the blade and amboyna burl for the handle.

The sharpened section is just shy of 3/16" up the blade. I used Trizact A20, A16,A6,A5 & A3 belts. Then I used a felt belt loaded with Fabulustre compound. I took my time and made sure all of the scratches were cleaned up before switching grits. The end result was a beautiful mirrored edge.

Thanks for all the advice.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
10-27-11 08:27.15 - Post#2403801    

Wow, that came out very nicely! Bet it cuts like crazy with that polished convex edge, looks like you got that one very well done, too. It takes time to make sure all the scratches are gone if you want a perfect mirror, but it sure looks awesome in the end.
KAH13
Member

KAH13
10-27-11 08:33.24 - Post#2403803    

Yeah, this is the first one I've done with the belts that truly "feels" sharp like we talked about. I have a couple more that I'm working on this evening. They are going to a guy who is leaving on a hunting trip Wednesday. I hope to get some good feedback from him on how well they hold up.
russde
Journeyman KnifeNut!

11-03-11 01:49.21 - Post#2406009    

Alrighty, so I've succumbed once again and have a kalamazoo on order.
I've read through this thread and haven't found a consensus on belt type (micro mesh, alox, SiC, etc); maybe there isn't a consensus on them...
So, what I'm looking for is suggestions for what belts to purchase to get this thing off the ground.
Cheers,
Russel
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-03-11 02:00.09 - Post#2406015    

Totally just doing the lazy-man's C&P job from the "Want to try a belt sander" thread.


The go-to guy around here is Doug Rising, he both supplies the Trizact belts, and can answer darn near any question you'd ever have. He's really easy to talk to as well, just drop him a PT. You'll be amazed how easily your knives gain an awesome edge with the belt, it's what I use for the bit of sharpening I do down at a local gun shop, and the edges never fail to impress.


To answer your question:

To start out with I will give you the same advice I received from Doug when I started out. I would probably get some inexpensive grit belts. EconAbrasives has very good deals, I would probably purchase two each of 120, 220, 320 and 400 grit, then add a 15u and 9u micron-graded belt. Also, two SurgiSharp leather belts, and a pound bar each of their green Ultra Fine and white Extra Fine buffing compounds. That will get you started with a fairly minimal investment, and will easily put VERY good edges on your blades. Once you're comfortable with the belt and have decided that you're going to keep that as your sharpening method, then talk to Doug, and let him guide you down the rabbit hole of the Trizact family. They're really superb belts, and are well worth the higher price tag once you are comfortable with sharpening on your new tool.

I personally have been sharpening on the belt for only six months or so now, and am still learning a lot with every knife I do. I just know I won't be going back any time soon, certainly not for working edges!

If you're interested: My current line-up runs a Norton Blaze ceramic 120-grit belt if the knife needs a little re-profiling, chips removed or a tip reground, then Trizacts in A65, A20, A16, A6 and A3, then the same two SurgiSharp leather belts I started out with, and the Econ compounds. Depends on what I'm doing, but frequently for working knives I will use the 120, then the A65 and A16, then the leather. I've actually run with a 120/A20/Leather set a couple times for fairly good results, but your mileage will vary with your style, and what kind of edge you decide you need.

I would HIGHLY suggest just going and grabbing some cheap old kitchen knives from a second-hand store or goodwill to practice on, that way if you get a little grind-happy and take off a tip while you're learning, it's no biggie.

General tips:

1. Keep it cool! If you can't pinch the edge tightly in your fingers as soon as it comes off the belt, you're getting a tad warm and it's time to dip the blade.

2. Only take the point HALFWAY across the belt. If you drag the point all the way across, you can take it right off the knife in an instant.

3. Light pressure! The belt is doing the work, your job is just to guide the edge along it.

4. Keep the edge square to the belt. You always want the belt moving so that the grit is passing perpendicular to the edge. That means as the belly and tip roll up toward the spine, you will need to lift the handle to keep the edge parallel with the floor.

5. Don't stress! The belt is a very instinctive way to sharpen, and convex edges are quite forgiving. Don't worry about angles too much, it's very easy to see if you're getting things even by looking at how far the spine and belt are apart.


EDIT: For meat slicing, your best bet might be to stop at a 220 grit belt, and just use the green on leather to strop off the burr. A little bit of bite left in your edge can make the slice through tissue a lot smoother. The downside is that it dulls more rapidly than a highly-polished edge, but if you've got the belt right there, a new edge takes about 90 seconds.

russde
Journeyman KnifeNut!

11-03-11 02:19.09 - Post#2406019    

Thanks Komi,
I'd seen that post but couldn't remember where...
R
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-03-11 02:38.16 - Post#2406030    

Well, took me a bit to find it, and I WROTE it, so yeah... Been quite a bit of interest in the belts lately, I'm glad to see it! Although if more people knew how easy it was, I wouldn't have anything to do down at the gun shop on the weekends.
Obone
Member

Obone
11-03-11 03:23.16 - Post#2406054    

Russde, which Kalamazoo did you order? I have thought about this and wondering if I really want to spend the money.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-03-11 03:39.12 - Post#2406058    

The model 1SM is the one that pretty much all of us have, I think. Just the standard 1x42 one.
russde
Journeyman KnifeNut!

11-03-11 07:29.36 - Post#2406122    

  • Komitadjie Said:
The model 1SM is the one that pretty much all of us have, I think. Just the standard 1x42 one.



Yup, the 1sm it is...
R
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-03-11 07:42.06 - Post#2406127    

For your wallet-draining ordering convenience!

Enco Page

Promo Code HPRNOV for 15% off through all of November, courtesy of Rob Babcock!
Obone
Member

Obone
11-03-11 10:34.28 - Post#2406186    

Tbanks for the info.
Chuckm8189
Master Member KnifeNut!

Chuckm8189
11-03-11 10:35.58 - Post#2406187    

Belt's and abrasives suggested in an earlier post will cost about $75 with postage. Total commitment is just under $300.

DON'T FORGET A DECENT PAIR OF SAFETY GLASSES!

Can you modify the tool platen to adjust for different bevel angles?
Chef Knives

Chuck

"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-03-11 12:57.08 - Post#2406244    

No, the platen is fixed. If you wanted to grind at an angle, I'd probably just built a folding table for the base and tilt the whole grinder.
Chuckm8189
Master Member KnifeNut!

Chuckm8189
11-03-11 14:28.53 - Post#2406270    

So what is Ytreich's platen mod, and how do you control the angle of the bevel?
Chef Knives

Chuck

"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-03-11 15:44.14 - Post#2406290    

You can find out all about the mod in Ytreich's thread HERE.

You keep the angle by just watching the distance between the spine and the belt and keeping it even as you make the pass. It sounds a LOT more difficult than it actually is.
Chuckm8189
Master Member KnifeNut!

Chuckm8189
11-04-11 11:34.25 - Post#2406545    

  • Komitadjie Said:

You keep the angle by just watching the distance between the spine and the belt and keeping it even as you make the pass. It sounds a LOT more difficult than it actually is.



You don't know how little mechanical ability that I actually possess, nor do you know that I have the hand-eye coordination of a three year old after two Mountain Dew's and a Snickers

I'm sure that I'll eventually get it (after grinding three Wustof's and a Saber all the way to the spine!!)

Thanks for the link to the platen mod thread.
Chef Knives

Chuck

"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-04-11 12:37.46 - Post#2406565    

Hey, you know you wanted a couple of awkwardly-handled paring knives anyway!

Seriously, though, it's not that tough to do, you'll pick it up quick. Couple of knives to goof around on, and you'll have it down pat.
seved
Journeyman KnifeNut!

seved
11-11-11 09:45.00 - Post#2408891    

Hi there

Very nice thread.

I used a 2*72 grinder for sharping and it has worked pretty good for me. But this days i have a speed regulator, so i dont get it faster than maybe 35-45 % and if you have fresh bands, you cant have so much presure on the band. On the other hand i cant have to much pressure on worn out bands either.

I saw some one that had problems with heat. Its very important to have fresh bands, and cool the blade OFTEN . Some one said that you should change bands as you have a factory that made them for you, for free.

But i thinking of buy or make a grinder for sharping, maybe a 1"*30 or something.

Seved
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
11-21-11 04:51.02 - Post#2412276    

I change out belts (when I'm using grit) based on what I'm doing. Sometimes a dull belt is just what I'm after for the amount of material I want to remove, etc. It is important to make sure you're not heating, though! If you can feel any significant heat at all at the edge when you take it off the belt, and certainly if you can't hold the edge comfortably the instant it comes off the belt, you need to cool more often.

If you're looking for one for sharpening, I'd probably pick up a 1x42. Belt life is a lot better than a 1x30, and there are more belts available.
COBALT1
Master Member KnifeNut!

COBALT1
12-04-11 13:32.16 - Post#2416771    

I think I'm getting the hang of this, Thanks guys for all the information!


Michiel Vanhoudt
Master Member KnifeNut!

Michiel Vanhoudt
12-04-11 19:41.58 - Post#2416859    

that looks perfectl!
Michiel


MIKE #506

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Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
12-07-11 10:28.17 - Post#2417892    

Looking good indeed!
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
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At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Slo793
Member

Slo793
01-15-12 08:41.47 - Post#2431417    

Thanks for all the great information and input. I am just getting into sharpening my own knives and came across the belt sander sharpening thread. I am very impressed and excited to give it a go. Great work.
Slo793
Member

Slo793
01-15-12 08:43.59 - Post#2431419    

Great video Twinblade. Thanks for the information.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
01-15-12 15:58.50 - Post#2431567    

Hey, glad to help out any way I can! I'm actually one of the newbie belt guys around here too, I've just had some VERY good instruction from some of the much more experienced guys here. Doug Rising, especially, and Ytreich. Jerry Hossom over in his thread has some great pointers as well, and is a really easy guy to talk with.

I've just found the belt to be the fastest, easiest way to put a darn good edge on a knife that I've been able to find. The real awesome ability of it is to be able to change in seconds from sub-micron stropping on leather to a 50-grit ceramic belt for repairing a broken-off tip.
Henryseale
Member

02-15-12 04:08.52 - Post#2443246    

I am very new to convex sharpening and have only done so with the mouse pad/sandpaper - leather stop method. I plan to get a bench sander soon. Questions that I have are should I stay with black and green compound for honing or should I also include white compound for final touch honing? Also, when honing with a leather belt in a sander, should the compound be used on the rough side of the leather or the smooth side? In my current manual operation, I use the black compound on rough side on one stop and green on another strop with the fine side of the leather. Thanks in advance for answers and suggestions.
Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

02-15-12 14:12.03 - Post#2443406    

I use the rough side out but it really does not matter in the end. It is what ever you feel comfortable with. I seldom use the black as I go from A65 Trizact to extra fine green on leather and then, (for my own personal use), white on leather. Using white is an extra belt change and I charge more for it. It also spoils the client and believe me, they notice when you stop at the green!

Hope that helps.
wilburspud
Member

wilburspud
03-31-12 01:28.36 - Post#2456929    

Hi Doug,
Just ordered my Kaly yesterday, I've read all the pages of this thread and want to get some Trizacts like Kom uses. "Trizacts in A65, A20, A16, A6 and A3, then the same two SurgiSharp leather belts" I've added you to my buddy list, whatever that means, and sent a message with it. Not sure how to do the Personal Message thing, looked but could not find it. I'm sure we can figure out a way to do some business though.

Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

04-01-12 14:48.35 - Post#2457314    

See my PM to you posted tonight.
Henryseale
Member

05-25-12 16:52.32 - Post#2472885    

Just got my Harbor Freight 1"x30" belt sander in today. Have not yet ordered any additional belts. It came with one belt, an 80 grit. Took the guards off it and set it up in the garage. Picked up an old hatchet with a very rough edge to experiment with. Did not time it, but seems like it took quite a while, but I finally got a good convex edge on it. Impressive! Really looking forward to getting some additional belts to tone up the edge. After that, I worked on an Ontario machette. Did not take long at all to convex the edge. Thanks to all who have posted the instuctional videos explaining this technique!
Mightymouse
Journeyman KnifeNut!

Mightymouse
06-03-12 02:08.46 - Post#2474603    

I just bought the Harbor Freight belt sander and played with it yesterday with the 80 grit that came with it and a 120 grit that I bought separate. I have ordered the micron belts and the leather belts but havent received them yet.
My question is about the tension of the belt. Mine seems more loose than I thought it would be. When I push the blade into the belt I get close to an inch of play. Is this normal? Has anyone tried to add a stiffer spring to the rear pulley?
Any and all info. will be much appreciated.
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-03-12 15:53.25 - Post#2474839    

It's fairly normal to have the belt slack, just sharpen with a very light touch, and stay ~1" from either the top wheel or the top of the platen.
Mightymouse
Journeyman KnifeNut!

Mightymouse
06-04-12 12:13.05 - Post#2475083    

OK. Thanks for the reply.
I will continue to practice, but find it somewhat difficult to keep even steady pressure through the curve of the blade when there is not much tension on the belt.
MichiganMorels
Journeyman KnifeNut!

06-04-12 17:17.59 - Post#2475156    

The belts that came with my HF, as well as the aluminum oxide belts I ordered online from another source, were fairly loose. But I ordered some 3M trizact belts and they are VERY tight. I like these better.

Also it took me awhile to get my machine to properly adjust. I can't explain what all I did, other than play around with it to see what was what. One thing I learned is to loosen the large bolt at the back bottom and then tighten slightly as you play around with it. Once you find the sweet spot, it makes adjusting with the knob much easier, and makes changing belts much easier too without having to back the knob all the way out each time.

I'm sure someone here will fiquer out what I'm trying to say, and explain it better for you. Maybe even with pictures.
Frank

luv2cut
Member KnifeNut!

06-06-12 08:11.20 - Post#2475552    

just got my custom ultra fine belts & have'nt even tried them yet but already looking to find a source for custom Trizact belts lol! Just because of what I've read about them on this site and 3M's site as well. There are several different ones just wondering which ones everybody uses. I've read some negative things about the diamond "Gator" belts as far as knife sharpening goes but I'd appreciate any input from others here. It looks like the ones to get would be the 237AA's, am I correct on this? I apologize if this cabbage has been chewed before and I missed it! Thanks any help appreciated!!
Doug Rising
Journeyman KnifeNut!

06-06-12 08:37.37 - Post#2475560    

My belts are 411/2"and A3-A16 plus a a few A45 and A65's A$7.00 ea. plus $6.00 S&H per order. send PM for address and phone #.

Doug Rising

Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
06-06-12 09:47.42 - Post#2475576    

And they're worth every dime of it. If anything, 3M's statement about their extended life is understated, my first set is STILL going strong, and the finish is amazingly consistent.

I use Norton's Blaze belts for 120 and coarser, then Trizacts for everything finer. Keep some 220 grit belts handy, though, for those guys that prefer a toothy edge.
luv2cut
Member KnifeNut!

06-06-12 11:51.54 - Post#2475603    

So are your belts diamond or A.O.? I did find someone to custom make the 1.5" x 24" but your right it won't be cheap after I buy the larger belts then have them made into smaller ones but should be worth it from what I hear. Just need to know which ones. I thought they were all diamond but I guess thats just the Gator's?
Mightymouse
Journeyman KnifeNut!

Mightymouse
06-10-12 03:45.21 - Post#2476408    

I just got my 1" x 30" belts for my HF belt sander. I ordered 150, 240, 30 mic, 15 mic, 9 mic, and 2 leather belts.
I was working on my first knife and everything was going great till I got to the leather belts. The first one was tight to put on, but i didn't think it was overyly tight. Turned the machine on and everything seemed ok. As soon as I touched the blade to the belt it snapped. It looks like it came apart where it was glued together. So, I put the second belt on, it seemed even tighter. Turned the machine on and let it run for a minute then started sharpening. This time it worked for a couple minutes of sharpening, then it snapped.
I was using very light pressure.
Anyone had similar experience? Do you think I got bad belts or is there something wrong with my machine? I ordered thru ECON Abrasives.
romo11
Member

09-02-12 10:08.06 - Post#2495334    

Well I see that no one has posted to this thread in a while. I just wanted to let everyone know that I purchased the trizact belts that Doug Rising makes and sells. These things, in my opinion, are the best belts I've ever used. If you haven't had a chance to try them, shoot Doug a PM and order some. I don't think you will regret it. Doug is a great guy and very easy to buy from. Trust me, you will love them. For the cost and the length of time it takes to wear these belts out, it's the cheapest belt you can buy in terms of dollars per mile and long lasting capabilities.

RoMo11
rlucius
Journeyman KnifeNut!

11-24-12 06:22.11 - Post#2511794    

Jeff -

Please note that "The Patron Saint of Knives" has several Harbor Freight machines on their backs, a Viel, a Deltas SA 180 (Grizzly H 8192) and numerous bench grinders.

http://www.patronsaintofknives.com/


Big Mike
Master Member KnifeNut!

Big Mike
11-24-12 08:15.25 - Post#2511815    

  • rlucius Said:
Jeff -

Please note that "The Patron Saint of Knives" has several Harbor Freight machines on their backs, a Viel, a Deltas SA 180 (Grizzly H 8192) and numerous bench grinders.

http://www.patronsaintofknives.com/







rlucius, it should be noted the Jeff (TwinBlade) has not posted on these Forums in over two years.





Big Mike



It's not the tool you use, ...it's how you use the tool!.


"A gentle hand to victory."

RobRod
Member

02-24-13 17:52.33 - Post#2534569    

I'm brand new on this sharpening with belt sanders. Somewhere in connection with your video you referred to Jerry Hossum's tutorial on sharpening. Is that a specific post of his or is it the entire collection of posts in "Sharpening My Way"?
Komitadjie
Master Member KnifeNut!

Komitadjie
02-25-13 02:32.28 - Post#2534597    

In general I've used it to refer to the entire collection of his postings and advice under the "sharpening my way" heading. He's got it fairly well laid out in the first few posts, but there's some good bits of wisdom and advice scattered around through the entire thread.
revelija
Member

03-04-13 12:03.36 - Post#2536262    

Not that any more videos on belt sharpening are needed on Youtube... I watched KnifeNut's video a few years ago and was motivated to take up belt sharpening. Now, three years later, I think I'm finally getting the hang of it. In fact, I'm building a pretty thriving little sharpening business.

So, as a way of showing my clients what I do, I did my own video. Like I said, there are probably already too many videos out there and KnifeNut probably said it all already, but here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1weY... I also did a shorter one showing the progress under a microscope. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsTp...
Rob Babcock
Master Member KnifeNut!

Rob Babcock
10-24-13 20:01.35 - Post#2571518    

  • revelija Said:
Not that any more videos on belt sharpening are needed on Youtube...



Always room for one more video! Nicely done. Only minor nit I'd pick is that it looks like the bolster needs more reduction; there's quite a hollow spot right in front of it. Starting at the heel exacerbates the problem in my experience. That's just a problem you get with knives with a bolster. I usually reduce them a lot unless the knife's owner doesn't want me to.

Good video, though. I've never used a leather wheel, but it's interesting. A buffer is something else I need down the road.
kicker9898
Member

11-02-13 15:46.59 - Post#2572907    

I have been playing around with different sharpening methods over the last year or so since I found out about Bark Rivers. My wife is getting tired of every piece of paper and arm hair in the house being sliced..

I want to try belt sharpening, and I have a Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder. However I noticed in one of the first few posts the recommendation against using a 2" belt. Can anyone tell me, is there any problem with using a 1" belt on the 2" grinder, or should I just use 2" and be VERY careful?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Jason
mlminto
Journeyman KnifeNut!

11-09-13 01:34.22 - Post#2573974    

Hmmm...hi. I'm a new guy (at knifemaking - been woodworking and sharpening things for years), but I sharpen my knives on the same 2" belt sander that I grind my knives with - seems to me it works fine. Never used a 1" belt on it, with proper tracking I can't see a problem. Mike
ytreich
Master Member KnifeNut!

ytreich
11-09-13 05:53.50 - Post#2574028    

I don't know about using 1" belts on a 2" machine, but one problem you will run into is not being able to grind to the plunge line with a 2" platen.
Trust me, for I like big butts and I cannot lie.

silverwolf
Journeyman KnifeNut!

silverwolf
11-10-13 09:05.00 - Post#2574225    

You have to check the belt speed and make sure its the same as the machine or higher then the machine speed.

And dont grind on the contact wheels, you can only use the belt in area's where there is no contactwheel please keep this in mind and follow that rule as its holy.

A couple of years a go we had a work accident with a big industrial belt grinder.
We did not have any correct sized belts anymore and some small metal plates needed rounding off.
So we place the smaller belt, the speeds where ok and worked fine.

We had a student at that time on hes work eduction training and he was working on the sander rounding off the small plate's,
during the work one of the plates hitted the contactwheel and sended it flying.

Because of this hes thumb hitted the contactwheel and was pulled between the wheel and the workrest.
The rubber ripple contactwheel grinded of a hole part of hes thumb flesh and it got ripped off because he pulled away.
There was nothing to save of hes thumb and lost it befor he even finished hes school.

So keep this in mind wen you use smaller belt sizes, be carefull and dont grind on the contactwheels with or without workrest the risk of it grabbing on to something is not worth it.

MN Paddler
Member

12-05-13 10:04.45 - Post#2578312    

Thanks for the great vid!
Paul NJ
Member

01-03-14 06:44.13 - Post#2582845    

I have yet to try the belt sander method for sharpening. Many years ago I did use automotive wet/dry paper and was successful in getting a very sharp edge on my Ka-Bar, I'm not sure if it would be classified as "scary sharp", but it would shave arm hair no problem. I'm new to this so give me a pass if this question has been asked a bunch of times.

It seems to me that in all the belt sanding videos the person doing it mentions that there is no heat build up in the blade. I would have to disagree in that if I see sparks flying there is considerable heat being generated. I even saw one where the person takes the blade temp and declares that it only went up from 81 to 85 degrees during the process. My reply is that it was a big knife with a heavy blade and you're only working on the very edge of it, a bunch of heat was generated to cause the entire knife to heat up, even if it is only 4 degrees. So, I guess I'm asking: Does it ruin the steel at the edge of the blade due to being heated? Am I correct in assuming that stones do not cause any where near the heat a belt sander does? Thank you for your thoughtful input. Regards, Paul in North Jersey.
Paul NJ
Member

01-07-14 08:38.15 - Post#2583703    

Looks like I'm answering my own question. After watching many you tube videos it occured to me that all the forging and tempering processess take place prior to putting the edge on the knife. So, what I see are some either artisans or factory workers using huge sanding belts or grinding wheels to create a very sharp edge. I have to conclude that the knife makers are not concerned about it. OK then.
Paul.

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