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Username Post: Randall Knives...
marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 03:22.02 - Post#1769274    

Whats the big deal?

They don't have a full tang. They don't come convexed. Even worse, their flat edge bevel is the "axe-like" 20 degrees (40 inclusive).

They even make a hollow handle sawback survival knife!

Why the mythic status?
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



KyleyHarris
Master Member KnifeNut!

02-20-09 03:45.35 - Post#1769293    

so yours will arrive 2012?
Making knives is fun

Let's all just buy some more knives!

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 05:07.31 - Post#1769331    

  • KyleyHarris Said:
so yours will arrive 2012?



They can't possibly be worth the 4 year wait!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Big Mike
Master Member KnifeNut!

Big Mike
02-20-09 05:21.31 - Post#1769336    

  • marcinek Said:
  • KyleyHarris Said:
so yours will arrive 2012?



They can't possibly be worth the 4 year wait!




You would obviously be mistaken.

Though they’re not my cup of tea, the fact the people are willing to wait four or five years for a knife, or pay a premium to get one sooner, shows that for many people they are worth it.

Personally if I wanted a knife in the Randall’s style I would buy one of the BlackJack Classics make by Mike Stewart.
Big Mike



It's not the tool you use, ...it's how you use the tool!.


"A gentle hand to victory."

MikeStewart
Master Member KnifeNut!

MikeStewart
02-20-09 05:26.49 - Post#1769340    

John,

You might not see the value in them but they are the single most Collected Fixed Blade knife Brand on this Planet.

That is Saying something.


Mike..................
BRKCA MIKE #01
NJKCA #041

"I Am America"

Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

RIP Chris + 1

topali
Master Member KnifeNut!

topali
02-20-09 05:39.23 - Post#1769345    

The Randall knives are great. But I prefer Rob Hudson knives. Unfortunately, it is less known. For one knife must expect at least 6 months ...
WHO DARES WINS

brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 05:59.34 - Post#1769354    

I had one for a year.
Nice knife....but traded it off.
Just a little regretful....but not a lot. There was no "magic" attachment like I thought there would be.
Over-priced, IMO.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 06:11.59 - Post#1769360    

  • MikeStewart Said:
John,

You might not see the value in them but they are the single most Collected Fixed Blade knife Brand on this Planet.

That is Saying something.


Mike..................



It seems that they are collected becasue they are collectable!

Is there any reasons why? Anybody?
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 06:12.45 - Post#1769362    

  • topali Said:
The Randall knives are great. But I prefer Rob Hudson knives. Unfortunately, it is less known. For one knife must expect at least 6 months ...



Why are Randalls great topali?
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Big Mike
Master Member KnifeNut!

Big Mike
02-20-09 06:24.43 - Post#1769369    

  • brian w edginton Said:
There was no "magic" attachment like I thought there would be.






I agree, the Randall’s I’ve had come through my hands have been nice knives but held no special magic for me.

There were other people willing to pay more for these knives then me.

I would love to put one to hard use, but have trouble justifying using such a collectable piece.

Maybe someday I’ll get a good deal on “user”, and won’t feel bad about putting it to the test; that’s where I might find the “magic”.

Big Mike



It's not the tool you use, ...it's how you use the tool!.


"A gentle hand to victory."

brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 06:35.09 - Post#1769374    

  • Quote:
I would love to put one to hard use, but have trouble justifying using such a collectable piece.



Bloke who got mine was a US Army SF member...wanted it for a "work" knife.
He had a couple of "collectibles". Mine was a plain, stainless #1.

I did use it a little...couldn't see that it out-performed my "beater" knives in any way.
Actually, some were far superior in daily cutting chores....Randall edge was a bit thick. I guess it wasn't designed for stuff I did.

If I was a rich man, I might have a glass case with a few Randalls...pretty knives, mostly.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 06:52.38 - Post#1769385    

Noone seems particularly blown away by them so far.

Is there something inherently wrong with the design or are you saying that a Randall is an excellent design whose perfomance can be matched, if not exceeded, by similarly designed knives?

"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



topali
Master Member KnifeNut!

topali
02-20-09 06:54.54 - Post#1769388    

To make a comparison. We start with Rob Hudson.
WHO DARES WINS

topali
Master Member KnifeNut!

topali
02-20-09 07:05.46 - Post#1769399    

... continued with Randall knives.

OK. Now choose!
WHO DARES WINS

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 07:06.17 - Post#1769401    

topali...stop. Please.

We are not talking about Rob Hudson knives right now. Feel free to start another thread about them if you like. You are welcome to do that.

Do you have any opinion why Randalls have the status they do?

What makes them so widely collected?

Thats what we are talking about.



"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Native Justice
Master Member KnifeNut!

Native Justice
02-20-09 07:09.22 - Post#1769404    



I have a 6" #25 that I really enjoy. It's a user. Paid about $475 for it 2 years ago; didn't have to wait for it's mfg. like most do.

The stag and workmanship are perfect. Nickel silver guard and pommel, perfect. Grindlines, perfect. Welds at the guard, perfect. Ease of sharpening for the average user, perfect. The ability to use the knife with almost reckless abandon, return it to Randall to refurbish to like new condition, priceless.

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder and Randalls are it for me (despite the fact I only have/need one).
Be Safe.

NJ

"Dance like nobody's watching; Love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; Live like it's heaven on earth. Work like you don't need the money."

Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 07:21.45 - Post#1769416    

marcinek

Have you ever handled a Randall knife?


scaatylobo
Master Member KnifeNut!

scaatylobo
02-20-09 07:22.20 - Post#1769417    

  • marcinek Said:
  • MikeStewart Said:
John,

You might not see the value in them but they are the single most Collected Fixed Blade knife Brand on this Planet.

That is Saying something.


Mike..................



It seems that they are collected becasue they are collectable!

Is there any reasons why? Anybody?



If you like BIG knives [ you know I do ] then you would understand if you were to hold a Smithsonian Bowie from Randall.I own three Randalls and I use them,they are not 'collectors' and if I get more I will use than and see if they hold up as well as - oh say a Barkie.
" A Bad Day Living,Beats A Good Day Dead"

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 07:27.42 - Post#1769421    

  • Sufler Said:
marcinek

Have you ever handled a Randall knife?





No I have not. What would I feel if I did?

So far no one has told me that I would feel anything other than collectability!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



topali
Master Member KnifeNut!

topali
02-20-09 07:28.11 - Post#1769422    

Randall knives are very nice. He use more stag for handle (not sambar stag). Guard seems a little high. Sheath is classic and beautiful. About steel can talk Mr. MikeStewart.
WHO DARES WINS

scaatylobo
Master Member KnifeNut!

scaatylobo
02-20-09 07:29.27 - Post#1769423    

Guess its like trying to describe sex to a virgin,just try one and see,it wont hurt ya - except in the pocketbook .
" A Bad Day Living,Beats A Good Day Dead"

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 07:32.30 - Post#1769430    

scaaty...are you saying a Barkie, at a fraction of the cost and with very little to no wait time, is equal in quality to a Randall?

Than what elevates Randalls up to the mythic status they have?

Would you eagerly wait four years for a Barkie?

And what about that flat edge bevel on a Randall? I thought sabre grind + flat edge bevel = sharpened prybar.
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 07:36.45 - Post#1769432    

  • scaatylobo Said:
Guess its like trying to describe sex to a virgin,just try one and see,it wont hurt ya - except in the pocketbook .



So far, no one has done anything to make me believe that "Randall sex" would be worth a four year wait! Or four hundred bucks!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 07:43.41 - Post#1769442    

Personally, I would have thought a moderator would start a more substantial thread.

Randalls don't hold any "mythical" status to me - they're very good quality knives. They're design originators - most (if not all) designs you see today are copied after Randalls. You don't have to wait four years - half that time if you buy through an authorized dealer. For what you get in a Randall, they are very good value knives - have you looked at what other companies/makers charge for a similar product?

Why would you own one? To have the original knife. To have a knife that oozes hand made quality. To feel what Sebenza owners feel - pride in ownership? They're not hype: they don't try to be Busse or Strider - talk about "myth status". Randalls are knives made the old fashion way with proven materials and have a running track record of over 70 years in the field (both military and sportsman's). It's like owning a watch: do you prefer quartz or mechanical? Look at Rolex - most automatically think it's an over priced watch. Really? Study the market and find if that's really true. What gives you more satisfaction?

Try one. If it doesn't "sing" to you... you know you'll get your money back.




brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 07:46.01 - Post#1769447    

  • Quote:

Why would you own one? To have the original knife. To have a knife that oozes hand made quality. To feel what Sebenza owners fee



I guess I am some sort of misfit...traded off by Sebenza after a short time, too.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







slysir
Master Member KnifeNut!

slysir
02-20-09 08:13.34 - Post#1769468    

When I moved to Florida in 1998, one of my first "tourist" attractions was the Randall factory. For those of you who've never been there...it's Bo's house in the middle of an orange grove.
I got to see and handle numerous models...fit and finish is world class. Magic...zero.
I passed on a down payment...I couldn't justify the price or wait.
A lot of the mystique is that the US government purchased them for their top missions...astronauts, Gary Powers spy missions. Much like James Bond and the Walther PPK/S...quality, yes...but it takes more than the costume to turn you into a superhero.

A side note: the Russians gave Gary Powers back, but kept the knife

John
Diplomacy is the art of saying good dog...until you can find a rock!!

wescobts
Master Member KnifeNut!

wescobts
02-20-09 08:24.56 - Post#1769474    

My first line sergeant was SF, yes you are correct, a lot of guys in group get Randalls, along with a Rolex.
Alox Soldier, best knife ever made, period !

efros10
Master Member KnifeNut!

efros10
02-20-09 08:25.07 - Post#1769475    

  • Sufler Said:
Personally, I would have thought a moderator would start a more substantial thread.






I actually think this is a good topic as I have always wondered if I need to add a randall to my collection and from what I have learned is that unless I want a knife that is less efficient than my users but more collectable, then I should get a randall. I was hoping someone would say that the 440B/? steel they use is incredible or that their magic grind cuts extremely well (for example) and then I would have to open my wish list pad. So far we have not heard any of these things. Interesting.
Jeremy

Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 08:31.50 - Post#1769480    

I quite honestly don't understand where all this "myth" BS is coming from.

You guys are literally asking to hear something "magical" about a knife in order for you justify purchasing one? Are you kidding?



By the way, this question is asked very often on this forum along with a number of other topics of similar questions for other brands.
marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 08:36.01 - Post#1769481    

  • Sufler Said:
I quite honestly don't understand where all this "myth" BS is coming from.

You guys are literally asking to hear something "magical" about a knife in order for you justify purchasing one? Are you kidding?





I am literally asking to hear what justifies the four year wait and increased cost, Sufler.

If it just this "indescribable somethingness" that you keep going on about, I'd rather have a Bark River, Black Jack, or Fallkniven NL.

I am more than willing to hear what is so collectable about them beyond just their collectability and mystique!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 08:36.53 - Post#1769483    

  • Quote:
You guys are literally asking to hear something "magical" about a knife in order for you justify purchasing one? Are you kidding?



What other justification could there be for paying twice what a similar quality knife would cost?

Maybe "magical" is poor euphemism for something more cerebral than practical.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 08:42.57 - Post#1769489    

  • Sufler Said:
...

They're design originators - most (if not all) designs you see today are copied after Randalls. ...





A pretty bold and totally inaccurate statement. Care to back it up with FACTS?
Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

slysir
Master Member KnifeNut!

slysir
02-20-09 08:44.00 - Post#1769490    

  • marcinek Said:
Whats the big deal?

Why the mythic status?



I think that's a very good question!! I've never owned a Randall, but I have played with them.

Personally, I think Barkies and Fallkniven's out perform them at half the price.

But nothing will out perform their investment record.

John
Diplomacy is the art of saying good dog...until you can find a rock!!

Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 08:46.24 - Post#1769493    

And I am literally trying to explain to you that you will not get that "satisfying" answer. You either go out there and try one for yourself and put your mind at ease for trying one or you don't.

You're comparing an all in-house hand made & forged Randall knife to a factory made production knives? That's your first issue right there.

For what they are, Randalls are a very good value - look at the market and compare other "similar" makers. Understand the fact that also a large number of people are not interested in the same knives that you are and vice-versa - they may not even look at the same class/market place of knives that you only buy at.


marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 08:47.57 - Post#1769496    

  • slysir Said:
  • marcinek Said:
Whats the big deal?

Why the mythic status?



I think that's a very good question!! I've never owned a Randall, but I have played with them.

Personally, I think Barkies and Fallkniven's out perform them at half the price.

But nothing will out perform their investment record.

John




Without question! They are proven investment knives.

I'm just asking what about them makes them such investor pieces. Incredible functionality? Mystique? Limited availabilty?
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 08:56.05 - Post#1769500    

  • Sufler Said:
...

They're design originators - most (if not all) designs you see today are copied after Randalls. ...





A pretty bold and totally inaccurate statement. Care to back it up with FACTS?
Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

slysir
Master Member KnifeNut!

slysir
02-20-09 08:57.13 - Post#1769501    

I think they are playing up the availability card. They purposely keep the market dry to increase price and limit availability.
Most companies would expand to meet demand.
They want to create the illusion that their product is almost impossible to obtain...much like the diamond industry..DeBeers has created an illusion that a diamond is an extremely rare stone..thus valuable...not true, same with oil....they limit the market to keep demand and price high

John
Diplomacy is the art of saying good dog...until you can find a rock!!

Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 08:59.57 - Post#1769503    

Reid. What are you doing? You've been on here, this forum, for such a long time that you know the history of Randalls equally well. I'm not about to feed your trolling. Less we forget that Randall's success was the ability to give the customer the options to his/her knife?

Want an example?

Here you go...

Randall #14 Attack. Innovative full-tang, channel handle design - patented; 1950s. (Randall Made Knives: The History of the Man and the Blades by Robert L. Gaddis)

Vietnam Era tenite handle version model #14


Modern #14 Attack


BlackJack HALO (made by BRKT).



Which one's the copy? Or, to be a little more PC... "homage"?
Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 09:01.46 - Post#1769505    

May I suggest one thing that everybody do here? Go to the Randall Knives site and order yourself the free catalog. This will at least give you the VERY basic information (which most here are lacking). Bo didn't expand his production for a reason - the catalog will explain why.

The product is very easy to obtain - just a two year wait with an authorized dealer and you'll have yours at delivery year prices. Go to AG Russell... he'll get you one in 6 months.

People! All it takes is a little research. Yikes.


marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 09:04.26 - Post#1769506    

Sufler...please keep your comments about other members "trolling" out of the General Forum. We are having a discussion.

Thank you.
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 09:06.35 - Post#1769508    

marcinek

If I know what a member is trying to do... I'll call him on it.

Thank YOU.

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 09:07.39 - Post#1769509    

  • Sufler Said:
May I suggest one thing that everybody do here? Go to the Randall Knives site and order yourself the free catalog. This will at least give you the VERY basic information (which most here are lacking). Bo didn't expand his production for a reason - the catalog will explain why.

The product is very easy to obtain. Just a two year wait with an authorized dealer and you'll have yours at delivery year prices. Go to AG Russell... he'll get you one in 6 months.

People! All it takes is a little research. Yikes.





I have the catalog Sufler.

Also please keep your comments about fellow members lacking basic information out of The General Forum.

If you would like to provide more quanitfiable information about what makes the Randalls so collectible, we are willing to hear it.

Thats what we are discussing.
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 09:11.35 - Post#1769513    

If they're asking stupid questions which require, not even a catalog, but a quick visit to the Randall web-site to retrieve the answer... it's worth saying they don't have the knowledge.

Thank you.

scaatylobo
Master Member KnifeNut!

scaatylobo
02-20-09 09:12.09 - Post#1769515    

  • Sufler Said:
And I am literally trying to explain to you that you will not get that "satisfying" answer. You either go out there and try one for yourself and put your mind at ease for trying one or you don't.

You're comparing an all in-house hand made & forged Randall knife to a factory made production knives? That's your first issue right there.

For what they are, Randalls are a very good value - look at the market and compare other "similar" makers. Understand the fact that also a large number of people are not interested in the same knives that you are and vice-versa - they may not even look at the same class/market place of knives that you only buy at.




They are one of the very few items that are not "wholesaled" to anyone.I have never seen a 'fire sale' on Randall knives so I gotta ask if you dont own one - or have used and handled one ,John - why pre-judge ?.As to those that have owned one - did you lose in its resale at all ?,they seem to sell for alsmost as much as any would pay for them - even if they are 20 or more years old.Try that with most other knives - NOT.They show a great deal of finish quality and are a thing to behold,besides - they cut too .And to answer you John,the Barkies I own are users and I am happy to know they can and would be replaced IF they were damaged.BUT not being a child I choose to not abuse my tools [ read knives in that ] .And if you hold a Randall Smithsonian Bowie and are not impressed - well we can differ on that then .
" A Bad Day Living,Beats A Good Day Dead"

Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 09:12.23 - Post#1769516    

That is called a mortised tang and it was done years before Bo Randall did it....



This ad dates from the 1930s, the Kephart Sheath knife was a mortised tang.

I don't believe BO's work predated that knife.

Patents are 50% innovation and 50% creative writing, just ask MAG Instrument about their patent for the flashlight.

That said...

Your statement

  • Quote:


... most (if not all) designs you see today are copied after Randalls ...





Leaves a lot more Design Origination from Randall so losing that example should be of small consequence to this discussion.

I do know thew history of Randall, I dare say probably a bit better than you judging by your statement and another in your last post.

Have any other examples of Randall Design Origination?


Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

slysir
Master Member KnifeNut!

slysir
02-20-09 09:12.35 - Post#1769517    

"Large scale commercial production with this kind of attention to detail is not feasible, and that's why knives of this unique quality are not widely available."

So hire more skilled craftsmen to meet demand!!

John
Diplomacy is the art of saying good dog...until you can find a rock!!

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 09:15.55 - Post#1769519    

  • Sufler Said:
If they're asking stupid questions which require, not even a catalog, but a quick visit to the Randall web-site to retrieve the answer... it's worth saying they don't have the knowledge.

Thank you.




Seems like calling fellow members "tolls" and "stupid" consitiutes a personal attack Sufler.
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 09:23.59 - Post#1769526    

"Patents are 50% innovation..."

That's 50% more than the brand you make your sheaths for.



Like I said: I'm not feeding your trolling. You know the details behind the #14/#15/#16 designs and using the Kephart (of which I know) as an example will satisfy only the ones who don't.
MikeStewart
Master Member KnifeNut!

MikeStewart
02-20-09 10:12.11 - Post#1769552    

  • Sufler Said:
"Patents are 50% innovation..."

That's 50% more than the brand you make your sheaths for.







Well Friend.

Reid makes Sheaths for a number of makers but You are the only one here that seems to be trolling and attacking other folks.

Is there Some patent that I don't know about that the Randall Company Holds ?

To the Best of my knowledge they hold no patents.

I am one of the Few people that frequents this section of the forum that actually knew Bo Randall.

I was one of the most perfect Gentleman I have ever met.

He actually Encouraged me -and many other makers- to make knives like his patterns and a lot of us have.

Now--With that Said.

I have made Hundreds of models of knives that look--Feel or perform NOTHING like a Randall.

In Fact--I am sure I have designed a lot more models of knives than Bo ever did and I owe part of that to his personal encouragement to think outside of the box and experiment with all kinds of knives.

You are doing him a disservice.

Consider this Notice--If You make one more attacking post on this Forum about anyone--I'll Ban You for Life.

You won't get a reprieve.

It will be for Life.

You have a number of moderators here with the Ban hammer in their hands.

I hope that is Clear Enough.

I happen to really like Randall Knives and think the world of them.

If You look above I was the First person in this Thread to Praise them.

Are they worth the wait ?--I say Yes.

Are they an unbelievable Value ?--I say Yes.

Will they perform in the Field ?-I say Yes.

Have I ever Carried One Personally ?--Yes.

I carried one right up to the day I started making my Own Knives.

I carried a 7 Inch Number 3 for 11 years.

It took everything I threw at it and I wish I had never sold it.

Would I personally Endorse them ?

Resoundingly--YES.

Any other questions ?


Mike
BRKCA MIKE #01
NJKCA #041

"I Am America"

Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

RIP Chris + 1

bax 40
Master Member KnifeNut!

bax 40
02-20-09 10:15.04 - Post#1769554    

I don't know wat you guys mean, expensive and 4 year wait, I paid less than 40 bucks for my Mod 19 Randall and only waited 6 months to get it!


OH, OH, OH I forgot ,that was the early 60s and that stag handled piece of o1 steel is worth approx $500 now ,Thats cheap in my book and I have never been in a hunting camp out west or in the Ozarks or in Texas without someoe saying something about the knife I was carrying, it has gutted and skinned a untold amount of deer and antelope a elk or two and about a jillion squirrells and rabits ,ducks and geese and I dont think I ever took a strop or stone to camp with me, The only time I ever dulled it seriously was cleaning 5 feral hogs in east Texas.
Marcinek Its pride of ownership, good edge holding, appreciation of even a beater in value over time , a ready market, just run a add for one anywhere and see what happens.
I have bought and sold many knives in my time and Randall is by far the most saleable I have seen, I set up at the local gunshows nowadays mainly to get knives and spread 30 or so on my table including my 19 and my trout and bird which is just a smaller version of the 19 and every time I get offers to sell both of them.
Why do people drive the cars they do, why do people buy Weatherby Rifles instead of savage which are usually as accurate as it gets and cost a third as much.
Why do so many people like GI carbines that they have driven the price of them out of the reach of most folks?
As they made their bones so to speak by making quality fighting and utility knives during ww2 and vietnam maybe its because so many soldiers saw what a quality knife was all about and told all their friends.

I love my Randalls and they will be passed down to my grandson and still be good knives and if Marcinek does not truly understand why people want to own a piece of history and a quality piece like a Randall then there not much hope for him I am afraid.

I have over 40 Barkies now because thats where my interest lies and some outragous priced kitchen knives but I still consider my Randalls as the cornerstones of my collection.

No fancy super steels no hype just as good as it gets.


Larry
God is Dog spelled backwards!

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 10:22.22 - Post#1769563    

Well, I'm suprised to hear that you think that "the brand [Sharpshooter] make[s his] sheaths for." has 0% innovation in them.

Seems like people around here seem to like them.

I'd still love to hear more "Intelligent discussion for the Knife Enthusiast" about the merits of Randalls.

Native Justice seems to love using his. scaaty says they make great "big" knives.

Other than that I can't say I have heard any of my orginal qustions addressed. Its seems that any other .25" inch thick sabre ground knife with a flat edge bevel is a sharpened prybar...and a sharpened prybar with a stick tang is a "soon to be broken" sharpened prybar.

As I said in the beginning, I'd love to hear what about putting "Randall" in front of "25" inch thick sabre ground knife with a flat edge bevel and a stick tang" turns it into such a great knife.

What about the practicality of the design does it?
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 10:23.25 - Post#1769565    

Raf, you made a statement....


  • Quote:


They're design originators - most (if not all) designs you see today are copied after Randalls. ...





I'm simply calling you on it.....

MOST designs you see today....

So you're discounting the work of Loveless? How about Scagel? Marble too?

Now if ya'll want the reason that Randall Knives are so coveted?

Here's part of it: the fans of Randall Made Knives are so dedicated to the knives and to Bo Randall that they are more than willing to revise history, even when it flies in the face of things Bo Randall actually said and the company history written by Randall Made Knives.

What you see here is a perfect example.

"They're design originators - most (if not all) designs you see today are copied after Randalls. ..."

is pure propaganda, not written or sanctioned by Randall Made Knives but instead by fanatical followers that have no interest in truth but only in maintaining the integrity of the brand and in many cases the value of their collection.

Bo Randall's first knife was clearly his version of Bill Scagel's work. The Randall Model 27 is a modernized version of a Scagel, but still shows the influence. The Model 25 is amazingly influenced by Scagel Designs.

The 14/15/16 are "Combat Knives" that weren't DESIGNED by Randall, they were adaptations of specifications from outside the Orlando shops...

The Model 17 was essentially Designed by the Mercury Astronauts with Bo building knives to suit what they percieved as a need.

The Model 18 "Designed" by Randall?

The Model 1 "Designed" by Randall or was it more a matter of evolving into what it is today? Tell me Raf, do you wish to discount the influence of James Zacharias on the development of the Model 1?

How about the Model 3? No Bill Scagel Influence?

That's NINE models. Need I continue? Shall we discuss the Bowies and the other influences that created what Randall sells today?

I am NOT in any way denigrating Randall Made Knives or the people who love and collect them.

I am calling out those who believe all knife design and development begins and ends in the Randall Shop.

I have owned a few Randall's over the years, they're good knives with an incredible mystique. They aren't MY choice of knives but that's in part due to the Mystique.

I use my knives rather than sit home and fondle them in my livingroom.

I take knives out in the field and find out what they can and cannot do, instead of being a general nuisance sitting in front of my keyboard and inventing different ways of asking the same question.

I read, listen and LEARN instead of making obviously false claims and then resenting when someone calls you out on them.

One more thing Suf.... I don't call people trolls because they disagree with me or when they catch me in a fabrication, instead I try to respect others opinions and answer their intelligent questions and opinions.

Did you still need me to publicly explain why I don't answer your PTs?

Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 10:30.20 - Post#1769570    

  • marcinek Said:
Well, I'm suprised to hear that you think that "the brand [Sharpshooter] make[s his] sheaths for." has 0% innovation in them.

Seems like people around here seem to like them...





HOLY CRAP!!!!


We must be in some sort of recession or something....

We're down to making sheaths for only one brand?

I better start laying people off on Monday Morning....

You need to let me know when something like that happens in MY business.... I could have laid them off today and gave them a head start on finding another job.
Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
02-20-09 10:31.25 - Post#1769572    

John, I would say that The edge put on Randalls is pretty typical of a larger knife. Most of the people that use them aren't knife nuts like us, and I know it increases the longevity and durability of the edge. If you are going to buy one to use, grind that edge down to where you like it! I know I would. Heck, I even modify the edges on my Barkies if they don't suit me.

I would agree with the assertion that they have purposefully kept production small. In order to find out the specific reason, I suggest you contact Bo Randall. Anything else would be hearsay.

I don't own any, but I have had the pleasure of looking at and fondling a few as well as using one that belonged to a scoutmaster of mine years ago.

Perfect materials and workmanship, as one would expect for the price and demand. The warranty? Similar to any of the best companies I have dealt with. The price and wait time are a bit much for me. However, consider the thousands of dollars people are willing to pay for other investor grade customs. In comparison Randalls are quite a deal for the amount of workmanship that goes into them.

I've known many people that order 3 or more knives when they order their first because they fully know they can turn around and sell the others for a tidy profit. One guy I talked with over on BF financed his Randall with the three extras he ordered.



Bottom line...

There isn't any magic for me, but I certainly won't begrudge those that feel it. The cost is worth it merely for the obvious amount of labor that goes into each piece, and the wait time is something you either deal with or pay a premium to skip.

It all boils down to personal opinion.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 10:34.26 - Post#1769574    

  • Quote:
I suggest you contact Bo Randall. Anything else would be hearsay.



Last time I checked, he was still dead.
Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
02-20-09 10:36.00 - Post#1769575    

  • Sharpshooter Said:
  • Quote:
I suggest you contact Bo Randall. Anything else would be hearsay.



Last time I checked, he was still dead.



Oops!



Guess I should go lookup who is in charge of the company. That would be the person to contact.

As you might be able to tell, I'm not up on Randall stuff.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 10:39.02 - Post#1769579    

  • Sharpshooter Said:
  • marcinek Said:
Well, I'm suprised to hear that you think that "the brand [Sharpshooter] make[s his] sheaths for." has 0% innovation in them.

Seems like people around here seem to like them...





HOLY CRAP!!!!


We must be in some sort of recession or something....

We're down to making sheaths for only one brand?

I better start laying people off on Monday Morning....

You need to let me know when something like that happens in MY business.... I could have laid them off today and gave them a head start on finding another job.



No offense from me intended Sharpshooter, I have no doubt that all the brands you make sheaths for have much more than 50% innovation in their design!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 10:41.01 - Post#1769585    

"maintaining the integrity of the brand and in many cases the value of their collection."

Randalls don't need to this to be done by their owners. This brand stands on its own merit. You know this - stop the BS. Don't answer my PTs? Hell, you have a reputation for not answering any that come your way.

The only brand on this forum I see this do is BRKT. Dare I remind you of when I asked for input on the Caldwell knife? BRKT groupies have their ideology too. This is what happens when you have a paying sponsor with a vested interest in their product also being the moderator of the forum.

So, what? You dare to say a few nice things about Randall knives but at the same time you spit the brand in its face?

Mike.

So, you met Bo Randall? That makes you special? Anybody who walked into the shop before his death in 1989 probably shook his hand. Just like you, there were hundreds of makers who met him and were influenced by his work but not to the point of copying the designs outright. I already told you what Gary (an other shop members) thinks of your knives. Hello? How long do patents last? When was the #14/#15/#16 design implemented?

You gonna ban me? For what? Be honest! The inconveniences that are going on between us behind closed doors? You always take stabs at me in public forums.

I didn't offend anybody here.




Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
02-20-09 10:44.40 - Post#1769588    

Hey Suf, let's keep it on Randall knives. Just do us a favor and don't send jabs at Mike or Reid or John....

Any one of us can do exactly as Mike has suggested, and I know none of us want to. Let's not take it there.

Back to Randall!
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Sufler
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sufler
02-20-09 10:45.18 - Post#1769589    

  • Simms65 Said:
Hey Suf, let's keep it on Randall knives. Just do us a favor and don't send jabs at Mike or Reid or John....

Any one of us can do exactly as Mike has suggested, and I know none of us want to. Let's not take it there.

Back to Randall!



Sounds good to me!

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 10:47.05 - Post#1769592    

Hey Sufler.

Two words for you..."Devil's Advocate".

Everybody else took part in the discussion in a friendly and intelligent manner.

You resorted to name calling. I am offended. This is your only warning from me.

I don't care what you think of the job I do moderating, and I don't care what beefs you have with anybody else.

Keep both of them out of here.
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



MikeStewart
Master Member KnifeNut!

MikeStewart
02-20-09 10:48.15 - Post#1769593    

You are just trying to degrade anyone that does not agree with you.

It is sad.

I have never been in the Randall Shop.

I met with Bo a number of times but never in his Shop.

He does not need You to defend him or his Company.

They are Giants and You are not.

Son--You are shouting in the wind.

BRKCA MIKE #01
NJKCA #041

"I Am America"

Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

RIP Chris + 1

Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
02-20-09 10:48.34 - Post#1769594    

John, you... playing Devil's Advocate? What? Never.
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 10:53.24 - Post#1769601    

  • Quote:


You gonna ban me? For what? Be honest! The inconveniences that are going on between us behind closed doors? You always take stabs at me in public forums.

I didn't offend anybody here.



Know what Suf, you offended ME.

For what? For being abusive on the forum, for publicly attacking people on the forum and for being a Troll.

That honest enough for you?

Too bad Raf, you crossed a line that you should never have approached...

I don't give public warnings or second chances and I don't ask permission.

I also don't ban many people, it's been at least 8 months since the last one....

But you sir are gone.

Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 11:05.32 - Post#1769610    

  • Simms65 Said:
John, you... playing Devil's Advocate? What? Never.




I don't even know if "Devils Advocate" is the right phrase, being that, at no time in this thread did I ever say anything other than a hypothetical about Randall knives.

"It seems..." "If ...."

Randall Knives are beautiful. I wish I had the budget and patience to own one. In fact, I just recently bought a the best Randall "clone" I could afford. Its a fabulous knife, beautifully buit and aethetically stunning. (Review coming soon!)

Oh well. It was a refreshing discussion wasn't it? Talking about knives is nice. I am hoping to make sure we do it more often around here in the General Forum!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 11:37.51 - Post#1769635    

I have owned a few Randalls, they are GOOD knives.

I probably don't have the knowledge to recognize that they are GREAT knives.

The designs are pretty much more evolutionary than revolutionary with a heavy Scagel and Marble influence.

When Randall moved away from the traditional designs it was at the behest of some outside influence like the Marine Corps or NASA.

I don't like hollow or flat ground knives, I find that those grinds don't cut as well as convex. Believe it or not, Mike didn't invent convex grind. I first experienced it on an old Marbles Woodcraft and again on a Catarragus 225q.

Randall makes some very good serviceable designs and some that have me shaking my head, but that's as it should be.

I'm not in agreement with their maintaining a backlog of orders, but I also don't recall when the last time they asked me for advice was.

I'm certain that Gary and now Jason Randall have a very good reason for running their business the way they do. I also know that were either of them to call me and try telling me how to run my sheath business I would politely thank them for their input and go on doing what I want to do.

Why are people so in love with them....

I think it is in large part a matter of the historic reputation of the brand and scarcity.

Families of drivers bought and still buy Buicks because "they're the best car made" ignoring Pontiac and Olds as "not as good" when all three came from the same assembly line with the same parts and different badging.

Someone looking for a premium knife are going to look for Randall because that's the name they remember.

I hope that Randall made Knives does something in the near future to assure that their name remains high in public recognition. That something may well be continuing their long waiting period for a new Randall.

Having kills wanting. And as long as people WANT new Randalls there will be orders on the desk in Orlando and they will continue on.
Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 11:44.05 - Post#1769639    

I doubt even a $5,000 Loveless would even be mystical to me. While I can have the utmost appreciation to the extreme attention to detail that I have HEARD that they have (not holding one personally), especially for being made by hand, I see it as nothing more than the person that buys a petrified bug and finds out on Antiques Roadshow that it was carved out and made by some Mayan Indian and is valued at $350,000. I say let those that choose to spend money on whatever it is they want to, overpriced in someones opinion or not, do it and be happy doing so. There is obviously a market for it...one I personally do not see as something to participate in...and let it be as that.
BRKCA MIKE1196






bax 40
Master Member KnifeNut!

bax 40
02-20-09 11:59.06 - Post#1769651    

Methinks maybe too many peoples skin is way to thin, this thread got to the point that it did not dound like a Knife Forums thread at all but some alien one I dont recognize.
I joined this forum because of my interest in the Barkies and the Fallknivens and the friendliness I found here and the helpfullness of most everybody.
Lets see if we can get back to that and stop the pissing contests. I gave my reasons for liking Randalls and did not get one comment on it everybody is too busy one upping each other, guess I should have went to JD or somewhere people listen.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong!


Larry
God is Dog spelled backwards!

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 12:04.07 - Post#1769658    

I agree Larry. That is why I said there is a market for it and let it be as it is.

That market has been around longer than many (not including you ) of us have been alive. No different than old Marbles knives that now fetch a HEFTY price tag.
BRKCA MIKE1196






oldways
Master Member KnifeNut!

oldways
02-20-09 12:09.52 - Post#1769662    

I thought it was a redicilous display of ego and bad attitude.

Best regards, oldways

suffering from chronic Barkieholism


brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 12:35.40 - Post#1769682    

  • Quote:
You have a number of moderators here with the Ban hammer in their hands.



That is, IMO,an unfortunate fact.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







MikeStewart
Master Member KnifeNut!

MikeStewart
02-20-09 12:47.09 - Post#1769700    

  • bax 40 Said:
Methinks maybe too many peoples skin is way to thin, this thread got to the point that it did not dound like a Knife Forums thread at all but some alien one I dont recognize.
I joined this forum because of my interest in the Barkies and the Fallknivens and the friendliness I found here and the helpfullness of most everybody.
Lets see if we can get back to that and stop the pissing contests. I gave my reasons for liking Randalls and did not get one comment on it everybody is too busy one upping each other, guess I should have went to JD or somewhere people listen.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong!


Larry




Larry,

You are not alone in having a group of Randall Knives as the Bacakbone or Cornerstone of a Collection of knives.

I think it is actually very common with folks our age.

We had Fewer choices of good knives and the Randall was not only a great knife it was one of the few that everyone could point a finger at as "The Knife To Have".

Today we have tons of Choices on using knives and collector grade knives but there is only one Randall Knives and that will never change.

Mike...............
BRKCA MIKE #01
NJKCA #041

"I Am America"

Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

RIP Chris + 1

KyleyHarris
Master Member KnifeNut!

02-20-09 12:53.01 - Post#1769707    

To BAN or NOT TO BAN... That is the privelage of any moderator I guess.

Sad that it was not left up to John to reserve the right of banning in his own post. He may well have done the banning at some point himself.. but as General Forum Moderator, and Poster.. Sometimes other moderators should pretend they are just posters.

Anyway..

I thought it was an interesting post.

I have never seen a Randall. Never Held a Randall.. never will in NZ unless I buy a randall.. IS IT WORTH IT.. Sure.. NO Worse than the $455US i paid for my Sebenza. I have heard of the stunning quality, and work involved in a hand-forged, not Stock Removed blade.

In our modern world, the reality is becoming that machine manufacture, can and will do better than a hand made anything in a lot of cases... its seeing and holding and knowing that the blade was made by human hands that makes it amazing to me.. and .. As was pointed out.. History



Making knives is fun

Let's all just buy some more knives!

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 12:59.04 - Post#1769710    

  • KyleyHarris Said:

Sad that it was not left up to John to reserve the right of banning in his own post.




A lot of times, and this is no different, there is a "history" that accompanies a banning.
BRKCA MIKE1196






brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 13:02.29 - Post#1769712    

  • Quote:
Sad that it was not left up to John to reserve the right of banning in his own post. He may well have done the banning at some point himself.. but as General Forum Moderator, and Poster.. Sometimes other moderators should pretend they are just posters.



Actually, John is one of several moderators in the Gen Forum.
I am another.
So is Mike S.

But, without any need for discussion (that I was party to), the rest of us kinda left it in John's hands.
He seems pretty dedicated to the forum
Excitable....but competent

Yes...I think John would have handled the situation as he saw the need.

Not to criticize any other Mod who felt the need to step in.
If we weren't intended to use the "gift", we wouldn't....would we?
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 13:12.21 - Post#1769721    

Ill say this one time and be done with it.

I have no history with Sufler and the only reason I didn't ban him when he was banned was because Sharpshooter beat me to it. I will not abide with anyone calling other members "stupid" or "trolls" on this forum regardless of what their history with that member is.

Sharpshooter was entirely within his rights as a mod. And more than that...I stand behind his decision 110%. If someone shows they are incapable of havinng a civil discussion with someone whose opinion is different than their own...they shouldn't be a member of this discussion forum.

If anyone has issues with the job that any moderator does, I encourage you to contact them or James Nowka in a PM.

This isn't the place for it.
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 13:14.15 - Post#1769724    

  • Quote:
A lot of times, and this is no different, there is a "history" that accompanies a banning.



That's true....and it is, sometimes, a "behind the scenes" history, isn't it?

Personally, I think "behind the scenes" stuff should stay there.
If you know what I mean, TB.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 13:15.55 - Post#1769725    

Brian, I 100% agree with you.
BRKCA MIKE1196






MikeStewart
Master Member KnifeNut!

MikeStewart
02-20-09 13:17.24 - Post#1769727    

I think folks forget that Moderator have the same PT system as everyone else and a Special Forum for Moderator Discussions.

It is not unusual for a number of us to discuss problems before one of us takes action.

None of us need permission to take action but many times we do discuss our options prior to an action.

I think we all should get back to discussing Randal Knives and trust the Mod staff to make the Hard Calls.

Mike.................

BRKCA MIKE #01
NJKCA #041

"I Am America"

Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

RIP Chris + 1

brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-20-09 13:18.11 - Post#1769729    

  • Quote:
Brian, I 100% agree with you



110% would have been better.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 13:18.34 - Post#1769730    

BRKCA MIKE1196






Big Mike
Master Member KnifeNut!

Big Mike
02-20-09 13:45.57 - Post#1769753    

  • Sufler Said:


I didn't offend anybody here.






I find your attitude a bit offensive.

PS – I see I’m behind the curve on this.

Big Mike



It's not the tool you use, ...it's how you use the tool!.


"A gentle hand to victory."

Yossarian208
Master Member KnifeNut!

Yossarian208
02-20-09 14:00.31 - Post#1769761    

I'll start this again after that interlude. My favorite knife shop is an authorized Randall dealer so I have had the opportunity to handle quite a few of them over the years. My personal interest are in the #1's and #5's. My admiration has been in the quality and craftsmanship of the knives and not the company's history. They are a work of art and no two are exactly alike. But, I couldn't justify $125.00 for one in the early 70's and not $495.00 now. Knives are to cut things and after stretching my budget to that extent to purchase one, I would not honestly have the heart to use it.

Bruce
Mike #208

This is my attempt to get this thread back on track. If it doesn't work. lets just call it quits.
oldways
Master Member KnifeNut!

oldways
02-20-09 14:00.34 - Post#1769762    

Spaceport Cutlery as several Randalls for sale.

Best regards, oldways

suffering from chronic Barkieholism


marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 14:49.17 - Post#1769791    

I think we still have a perfectly good topic here.

Heres the knife i just got..Its a Randall clone, ot tribute, or whatever made by Northwoods. Its a beautifully made and beautiful looking knife...if anything it is a tribute to Randall's knives.



Its not my picture...its Forensic Jim Davidson's, one of the Northwoods, Scagel, Marbles forums mods and my Northwoods "pusher".

Its a very high quality knife at a price that will allow me to use it without hesitation.

And I still feel that my original question is an intersting one, if I do say so myself...What about Randalls makes them worth the cost and wait?

It clearly seems like that is a question intelligent knife enthusiats can discuss and debate.

I'd like to see the discussion/debate continue!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 15:02.43 - Post#1769798    

What makes a Carson Silver Coin as pricy as it is? It feels like a coin right? What makes a mint 1934 Rolls Royce Phantom so pricy? Does it drive any better than my truck? My wife's SUV? An old Cadillac? Why do people buy a Benelli shotgun for 4 times the price when my Remington Model 870 shoots just as well?
BRKCA MIKE1196






Simms65
Master Member KnifeNut!

Simms65
02-20-09 15:13.58 - Post#1769809    

Cause they want to! Our differences make us great!
David

My pictures starting 2013! My old pictures!

Founding member Mike #281
Barkiholic enabler!

At least I am not brainwashed into fearing an inanimate object.

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-20-09 15:14.26 - Post#1769810    

  • TwinBlade Said:
What makes a Carson Silver Coin as pricy as it is? It feels like a coin right? What makes a mint 1934 Rolls Royce Phantom so pricy? Does it drive any better than my truck? My wife's SUV? An old Cadillac? Why do people buy a Benelli shotgun for 4 times the price when my Remington Model 870 shoots just as well?



My question exactly! I suppose some would say the answer is obvious ... others would say one would have to be crazy to do so. I wanted to hear both sides discuss their reasoning.

I also think it is intersting that many consider Randalls a timeless classic knife design, and I betchya many around here think their design is entirely outdated. Collector pieces only.

I think they are fascinating knives! Certainly MORE than worthy of intelligent discussion, in my book!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



MikeStewart
Master Member KnifeNut!

MikeStewart
02-20-09 15:21.08 - Post#1769815    

Gosh This looks very Familiar.

Click to Enlarge

Looks Just like something I have seen before.

BRKCA MIKE #01
NJKCA #041

"I Am America"

Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

RIP Chris + 1

TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 15:21.22 - Post#1769816    

  • marcinek Said:

and I betchya many around here think their design is entirely outdated.



Not a lot new under the sun. the knives of old are still...in the hands of those that KNOW...considered to be the best in design. Lives depended on it back then, not filling a void in the "want to have" list. the more I use old school "styled" knives by you know who, and the patterns they are made after, the more impressed I am with design. I am of the sound opinion that forums like these are a remarkable tool for educating those that have succumbed to public opinion, hype and marketing, to show them the meaning of the WAY IT WAS.

I will agree with "timeless". There is a reason for it. As to why people pay the price tag they do for one? I am content with my BJ Model 1-7 to fill the bill, but there are a lot of purists out there and I simply say "It is what it is" and don't question it.
BRKCA MIKE1196






KyleyHarris
Master Member KnifeNut!

02-20-09 15:37.37 - Post#1769830    

Well, I will still say that their price, being a hand-forged, rather than laser cut.. is where the price comes in. Looking at any maker that hand forges, and Randalls (when ordered direct) are actually on the low side.

Now, as far as the supply and demand issue and the 4 year wait.. There are more knifemakers than I can count with 2-6 year waiting lists for their product. its not machine made, not stock removal.. forging and hand filing. heat treating.. etc.. all done inhouse. You cant say that they are intentionally restricting supply by "not hiring more staff" any more than any custom handmaker can.. if they pay someone else to make the knife, then its not a hand made knife by that custom maker any more.

God,.. I cant remember the name.. hes very well known.. Hand forging with 52100 and uses stag handles.. knives start around $1000US and there is a 2-3 year wait..

Are the knives BETTER.... its all subjective.. they all cut well, we all buy in the price range that makes us happy.

Some few people buy a Picasso too... most buy a quality reproduction.. The value you pay, is in the appreciation you feel.
Making knives is fun

Let's all just buy some more knives!

slysir
Master Member KnifeNut!

slysir
02-20-09 15:40.51 - Post#1769832    

I'm sure that most, if not all of us appreciate the quality workmanship that goes into a Randall. But does it really cut better than any knife made? No!!
I truly believe the mystique is in the marketing..keeping it scarce.
In the 70's I lived in Chicago, but traveled to Colorado on business quite often. Friends would get so excited knowing I would be bringing some Coor's beer back. They would have paid almost any price for it...mystique, because it wasn't readily available to them. Once it became readily available on the open market for a competive price...nobody cared anymore. It had nothing to do with the quality of the product. If Randall knives became available to most dealers within reasonable delivery time...dealers would compete, price would come down...everybody happy except Randall Made Knives.

John
Diplomacy is the art of saying good dog...until you can find a rock!!

bax 40
Master Member KnifeNut!

bax 40
02-20-09 15:46.00 - Post#1769839    

I just got on a 1 year waiting list for a double bit hatchet with a gentleman from Oklahoma,my wife says at my age I should not even buy green bananas! HMMMM, maybe she knows sumpin I dont.
Possibly to do with being on the forum all the time and buying knives too often
God is Dog spelled backwards!

scaatylobo
Master Member KnifeNut!

scaatylobo
02-20-09 16:01.58 - Post#1769850    

  • MikeStewart Said:
Gosh This looks very Familiar.

Click to Enlarge

Looks Just like something I have seen before.




Looks like a Bowie Corp [ Barkie-pre ] to me.And the post about why buy it ,was spot on.Ever go to a horse or car race to watch ONE car/horse race itself.Well same goes for knives,trucks,hammers,axe s,chainsaws, - get the idea.There is a revolver made in europe that costs FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS ,and I can honestly say I would not own one no matter what - BUT if the scoots were there I would own a 'few'Randalls more.
" A Bad Day Living,Beats A Good Day Dead"

BoBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

BoBlade
02-20-09 17:43.57 - Post#1769901    

Hi Guys,

This is going to be a long post and for that I apologise in advance.

The OP's question was a good one, as is this thread all things considered. To me the mystique is personal. I've loved knives all my life. In fact I can't remember a time I didn't carry at least a slipjoint going back to when I was no more than 5 years old. My Dad was born and raised on a farm in Oregon. He hunted and fished in order to put meat on the table. He couldn't afford a "good" knife until he came back from the European Theater in late '45. At that time he bought a 3-6 from Bo and did the knife justice in the field as he still enjoyed hunting and fishing. The price was $20.00. Doesn't sound like much now but it was back then.



I ran across that knife in his dresser drawer when I was maybe 7 or 8. It was the biggest most beautiful knife I had ever seen. I could not get it out of my mind. I finally got the courage up to ask him about it (That entailed admitting I was snooping around his stuff). He was gentle with me and explained that it was a tool and not a toy to be played with, and that sooner or later it would be mine. That day came when he took me deer hunting for the 1st time at 16. I treasured it every time I went hunting or fishing. I got drafted when I was 20, and after AIT my orders were to Nam. I knew I had to bring a knife with me and my Dad said take the Randall. I had no idea what it would be like over there and the last thing I wanted to do was lose that knife. I couldn't afford a new one at $35.00, so I shopped around and bought a Schrade Old Timer 150T:



To be honest it did it's job just as the Randall would have. However, it just wasn't the "same" to me. I came home with the Schrade, but never used it again. I gave up deer hunting in the late 80's and retired the Randall as it was a mite big for cleaning trout. I ran across it again about 8 years ago, and curiosity led me to do some research as I had no idea that Randall was even still in business. Needless to say I was kind of blown away. The more I researched the more interested I became. I learned that when WWII ended the demand for Randall knives dropped off a cliff and Bo had no choice but to lay off everyone but his right hand man. A guy named Bill Platts who was a European cutler by trade. Bo even resorted to bringing in brass polishing work to keep Bill employed. Bo always treated his workers as family and it devestated him to have to let them go. He swore he'd never let that happen again. Bill made most of the knives between mid '45 until the Korean war demand required that Bo take on additional help. The 1st real queue started after an article about Bo and his knives appeared in "True Magazine" in the December 1953 issue. That queue has never gone away as Bo's son Gary will never bring in additional "family members" that might have to be laid off.

This research led to me to collect. It was the "old ones" that intrigued me as the fit and finish was not perfect. The subtle differences cried out "hand made". When I started out I couldn't afford the old ones, but I was lucky enough to buy and resell at a time Randalls were going through a steep appreciation curve. That enabled me to selectively start acquiring a few old ones. I found out a long time ago that I can't buy everything I like, so I specialize in old Hunters. Here a pic of a few from mid '44 to mid '46:



I have a couple of "new" Model 3's in my collection that still ooze the mystique of Randall history to me, but it's the old ones that won't let me go.

Bottom line is that theres' been three things in my life that I'm passionate about: My family , my friends and my Randalls

Best to all,

Ron
TwinBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

TwinBlade
02-20-09 17:57.05 - Post#1769905    

An exceptional post. I am a better person for having read that Ron. Thanks.
BRKCA MIKE1196






Sharpshooter
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sharpshooter
02-20-09 17:58.35 - Post#1769906    

Scaaty,

Having fired a "Korth" several times I can assure you that it's not any nicer or better than a Smith and Wesson Model 27 or a good Python.

Much like the Randall, much of the perceived quality comes from scarcity.

Randalls are good knives but under the harsh light of reality nowhere near the level of perfection their reputation implies. I have seen new Randalls with not terrific grinds, polish issues and even a few dull ones. The Quality Control "Guy" at Randall has brain farts just like everyone else in the world.

They're good knives, many of the designs still grab my heart when I see them. I recently had a Model 25 in my hands last week that was so beautiful it made my heart skip a beat.

I'm gonna get me a Model 25 someday.

Somehow Jason Randall has managed to maintain the legendary status his Grandfather and father passed on to him; they must be doing something right.

Now if I could just talk them into a bit of sheath business, I could make them a big name maker...... oh...... wait nevermind they already are.
Experience life on purpose
BRKCA Mike89
Sharpshooter Sheaths
NorthStar Trading Post
עור פועל

Sheldon Wickersham
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sheldon Wickersham
02-20-09 17:58.50 - Post#1769907    

Ron, great post, thanks for putting into words an answer that the OP should likely be able to understand.

As an owner of ~80 Randall knives, as a person that has owned probably 400+ of 'em over the course of the years, as a person that primaily buys and sells Randall knives as a business - I can tell you, without a doubt, business is good

As to 'what makes them special' for the average user, I guess that's up to the average user. For me, taking a 40+ year old RMK Model #8 on a snow-hiking trip on Monday, and using it, just felt right.

As always, YMMV

That said, Mike, Reid, Ron, and Raf have all been friends of mine for close to ten years now...we haven't always agreed, god forbid, but we're still all friends.

That said, Raf has gone out of his way during that period to keep me, hell, all of us, honest...if someone here banned him, please undo it.

He's a good egg

Shel

p.s. The RMK patent for the channeled handle design is 177590, dated May 1st, 1956 - term of the patent is 14 years...
BRKCA MIKE #92.5
"That I could only be half the man my dog thinks I am..."
www.bluestarknives.com

Cisco
Member

Cisco
02-20-09 18:53.51 - Post#1769928    

Ron- That was a GREAT read, thanks for posting.

Shel- You should know better than to mention a 40+ year model #8 and not post a pic . The model 8 is my favorite model.

Thanks
Chestnut Ridge Knife Shop
www.ridgeknifeshop.com

Sheldon Wickersham
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sheldon Wickersham
02-20-09 19:13.34 - Post#1769935    

Cisco, hey buddy, good to see ya posting!

Ask and ye shall receive...



BRKCA MIKE #92.5
"That I could only be half the man my dog thinks I am..."
www.bluestarknives.com

bubbahoundog
Master Member KnifeNut!

02-20-09 20:28.56 - Post#1769955    

Ron,

Exceptional post sir. I was worried I was a lunatic for owning specifically "combat" models.(#1,#10,#14,#15,#16,#17,t wo#18's,1 non-catalog large sasquatch with stag,and a triathlete.).

I had a lucky spell for a few years, but now God knows when I'll be able to afford another RANDALL MADE KNIFE.....The spinal column of my collection.
slysir
Master Member KnifeNut!

slysir
02-21-09 00:56.14 - Post#1770011    

Ron,

The timeing of your post was unfortunate...no fault of yours

If it was at the beginning, you would have summed it up before it got out of control.
Every now and then I read a post such as yours, they are rare, and I'm much appreciative. Thanks for taking the time.
Great one!!

John
Diplomacy is the art of saying good dog...until you can find a rock!!

scaatylobo
Master Member KnifeNut!

scaatylobo
02-21-09 01:26.30 - Post#1770020    

Ron,that was a wonderful post and story too.Made me smell the old leather of the sheaths.And mr S.W. - you are a legend in the knife world so it does not surprise me that you too are a Randall man.I see and feel the 'magic' of those knives and as Reid said - no they might not be perfect.But I enjoy and drool over them anyway.Now if Randall would make a full tapered tang - THAT I would have to buy.
" A Bad Day Living,Beats A Good Day Dead"

topali
Master Member KnifeNut!

topali
02-21-09 02:09.55 - Post#1770042    

I thought that I will learn more about Randall knives. Unfortunately, I see again, the movie 12 angry men. :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7CB...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ_n...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...


I have Good luck with you…
WHO DARES WINS

scaatylobo
Master Member KnifeNut!

scaatylobo
02-21-09 03:21.43 - Post#1770091    

  • topali Said:
I thought that I will learn more about Randall knives. Unfortunately, I see again, the movie 12 angry men. :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7CB...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ_n...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...


I have Good luck with you…


I hope this translates - WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALIKING ABOUT ???????.This is all about Randall knives so go play somewhere else !.
" A Bad Day Living,Beats A Good Day Dead"

topali
Master Member KnifeNut!

topali
02-21-09 04:39.45 - Post#1770165    

You wish! Maybe, if you do your own site ...
WHO DARES WINS

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-21-09 04:45.49 - Post#1770173    

  • marcinek Said:
Ill say this one time and be done with it.

I have no history with Sufler and the only reason I didn't ban him when he was banned was because Sharpshooter beat me to it. I will not abide with anyone calling other members "stupid" or "trolls" on this forum regardless of what their history with that member is.

Sharpshooter was entirely within his rights as a mod. And more than that...I stand behind his decision 110%. If someone shows they are incapable of havinng a civil discussion with someone whose opinion is different than their own...they shouldn't be a member of this discussion forum.

If anyone has issues with the job that any moderator does, I encourage you to contact them or James Nowka in a PM.

This isn't the place for it.



I was really hoping to only have to say that once.

Let me put it this way. I no longer "encourage" you to contact James Nowka or the mod you have an issue with via PM...

I require it.

Keep it out of here or your posts will be edited or deleted.

I'm sick of just about every party involved in this nonsense (and other recent nonsense) and its done in the General Forum.

Gentlemen, please feel free to continue your KNIFE discussion.
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Crutch_Tip
It was all just a clerical error

02-21-09 05:07.11 - Post#1770189    

You will notice they didn't give Ron a magazine for his M16, much less cartridges! Which brings up his uncanny resemblence to Deputy Barny Fife!
Cisco
Member

Cisco
02-21-09 05:14.37 - Post#1770194    

Awesome pic Sheldon ..... Thanks for posting. Your 40's model 8 most likely has a brown button sheath and I was wondering......When you carry an older user do you use the original sheath? or use a replacement sheath?

Thanks again,
Cisco.
Chestnut Ridge Knife Shop
www.ridgeknifeshop.com

Sheldon Wickersham
Master Member KnifeNut!

Sheldon Wickersham
02-21-09 08:15.04 - Post#1770326    

Cisco, a 40+ year old knife puts this one in the mid 1960's, and I used the original sheath - but, your question is still a good one, and the reason I chose this knife and not one of my older brown button sheathed models...

I'm hesitant to carry one of the older knives out of respect for age and condition - well that and I'd probably have a real rough go finding a replacement sheath if I damaged the original...

-S
BRKCA MIKE #92.5
"That I could only be half the man my dog thinks I am..."
www.bluestarknives.com

BoBlade
Master Member KnifeNut!

BoBlade
02-21-09 08:37.29 - Post#1770350    

Thanks for you kind words, Guys!


  • Crutch_Tip Said:
You will notice they didn't give Ron a magazine for his M16, much less cartridges! Which brings up his uncanny resemblence to Deputy Barny Fife!



This is my "friend" Joe, who suddenly I'm not so passionate about Now I feel compelled to respond so I hopefully won't be confused with Barney. That photo was taken during my first week of in-country indoctrination, 99th Replacement Battalion' "Bearcat". And yes, they would not issue ammo to us that week unless the base was hit. Nice!

Again, best to all.

Ron

dirty water
Journeyman KnifeNut!

dirty water
02-21-09 08:43.57 - Post#1770358    

Yes, it does look familar...

---DW---
Cisco
Member

Cisco
02-21-09 08:57.00 - Post#1770366    

Thanks Sheldon for your reply. I am picking up a 7 spacer (brown button) model 8 this March at the Knife Expo in Pasadena. I have been losing sleep trying to decide.... Should I used an older model 8 with a little use or use a brand new 8 that I just got. After reading your reply, I feel a lot better with my decision on using my new one.

Thanks again.
Chestnut Ridge Knife Shop
www.ridgeknifeshop.com

marcinek
Master Member KnifeNut!

marcinek
02-21-09 09:49.05 - Post#1770411    

  • dirty water Said:
Yes, it does look familar...

---DW---



Thats true dirty water! That Randall is a beauty! That Northwoods I posted the pic of looks almost identical to a Randall #19.

I'm sure it is not as nice as a your Randall...but I could afford it, I didn't have to wait four and half-years, and I won't be afraid to use it! And its a great knife nonetheless!
"Why use an ox-cleaver to carve a chicken?" - Confucius



Beawolf
Master Member KnifeNut!

02-21-09 12:48.42 - Post#1770580    

Back in the seventies I scraped together enough money to buy a RANDALL. Direct from company wait time was two years. I made acquaintence with a dealer and custom ordered one and he delivered it in two months just the way I wanted it. Cost was $125 for a Model 5 Micarta handle with ns guard. I still have it. I also joined the Society club and bought first issue club knives and some others. Tough times hit and I sold off all but the first one for a tidy profit. They are a production company and with a backlog of four years+ the workers are getting steady emploument for at least that long. Steady employment, no reduced hours or layoffs sounds good to me. And Made in the USA. Quality before quantity. If only other companies enjoyed such luxury they wouldn't go overseas or kaput. Randall has something other companies must envy. Bigger is not always better.
Beawolf
brianWE
Member

brianWE
02-21-09 13:19.07 - Post#1770615    

Hard to have a discussion on Randalls without getting onto "investment value".

They have that in spades.

But, when I used to buy knives (before my credit cards were declared part of the National Debt), I don't think I ever bought a knife I wasn't intending to use.
Of course, I have a bunch I never got around to using

But, paying a premium for an object in the expectation of making a profit never appealed to me.
I mean, had I known I was gonna live this long, I might have had a different view on investment.
Brian W Edginton
I am an old bloke. Sometimes I forget things that happened. Sometimes, I remember things that didn't.
When I post, you are getting the best I have on the day. Be kind.







atlatl55
Banned

atlatl55
02-21-09 14:07.37 - Post#1770661    

Randall didnt come up with that design. I have a 2000 year old cherokee arrowhead that out dates that design. I am kind of kiding but there is alot of truth in my statment. IT IS WHAT IT IS.
Herb
Crutch_Tip
It was all just a clerical error

02-21-09 15:53.58 - Post#1770741    

  • marcinek Said:
  • topali Said:
The Randall knives are great. But I prefer Rob Hudson knives. Unfortunately, it is less known. For one knife must expect at least 6 months ...



Why are Randalls great topali?




If you gotta ask...........

  • Sharpshooter Said:
Scaaty,

Having fired a "Korth" several times I can assure you that it's not any nicer or better than a Smith and Wesson Model 27 or a good Python.

Much like the Randall, much of the perceived quality comes from scarcity.



Highly unlikely my friend, the perception of quality comes from, well, quality.

  • Sharpshooter Said:
Randall’s are good knives but under the harsh light of reality nowhere near the level of perfection their reputation implies. I have seen new Randall’s with not terrific grinds, polish issues and even a few dull ones. The Quality Control "Guy" at Randall has brain farts just like everyone else in the world.



Really? Perhaps you can enlighten us with some first hand examples of brain farts by the "Quality Control Guy" at Randall.

  • Sharpshooter Said:
They're good knives, many of the designs still grab my heart when I see them. I recently had a Model 25 in my hands last week that was so beautiful it made my heart skip a beat.

I'm gonna get me a Model 25 someday.

Somehow Jason Randall has managed to maintain the legendary status his Grandfather and father passed on to him; they must be doing something right.

Now if I could just talk them into a bit of sheath business, I could make them a big name maker...... oh...... wait nevermind they already are.




FYI, Jason does not run RMK, his father does.

Note that Bo duly gave credit to Scagle for the initial spark that got Bo started in the HOBBY of knife making. That is what it was, a hobby. If Bill Scagle is the granddaddy of modern American knife making, then Bo Randall is the daddy. Period.


Some of the discussion has centered on the design acumen of Bo Randall. Some of the aforementioned models are very clear on who designed them from the outset. It should also be noted, that individual users submitted initial designs that Bo often modified in a loose collaboration to come up with a great one. Zacharias, Tommy Thompson, and Ingraham to name a few spanning three decades and three wars. All who ever contributed knife design ideas to Bo were duly given credit.

Also note that Loveless did not come up with the first "drop point" skinner (Randall model 11) which is a popular myth, a term widely used in this thread. He walked into a store, A&F I believe, and couldn’t afford a Randall. So, he dare I say it, copied Bo’s design and the rest is history.

After reading all the nonsensical crap in this thread, both by moderators and members alike, and trying to absorb it all has left me knowing I made the right decision several years ago not to participate here. Notice that I was a member PRIOR to most of the self exalted mods, and would have probably been a member prior to my actual joining but again, resisted until goaded by some others.

Funny thing is I seldom see a Randall guy criticizing other maker’s knives. In fact, I believe most Randall enthusiasts are also knife enthusiasts in general and appreciate many forms and makers of cutlery for “art” as well as utilitarian purposes. This includes RMK shop employees, probably the first to complement another maker’s wares. I do quite often see other maker enthusiasts criticizing Randall knives though. Sad really, but I guess when you are at the top of the mountain, somebody is trying to knock you off.


MikeStewart
Master Member KnifeNut!

MikeStewart
02-21-09 16:05.04 - Post#1770748    

Just so you know--The Loveless Drop point was based on the Rusell Heavy Hunter.(Dadley without the Jimping)

Take a look.

Bob Freely admits it all the time.

Sir--You are off Base with your post.

It was a Randall Guy that Started the Crap here and turned this thread into a Free For All.

Nobody here was attacking Randall or the Company or the knives.

The Original thread asked Why the knives were special?

that was not even touched until Ron Posted his use of one.

My use for 11 years was ignored.

You have clearly stated that you don't like it here so this seems to me to be just a chance to throw some gasoline on a fire that has already been put out.

This thread has now Run it's course--you have had Your say.

I didn't see anyone from here running over to the other Forum that you talk Randall on and start some Crap.

You have done that here.

We'll leave it at that and people can judge for themselves.

It is now Finished and this is locked.


Mike
BRKCA MIKE #01
NJKCA #041

"I Am America"

Bark River Facebook Group - Join Today

RIP Chris + 1


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